13 replies to this topic

[BaptizedBeliever]

D.M. Canright, a former bigwig with Ellen G. White in the Seventh-Day Adventist group, could no longer stand the lies that were being perpetrated for money and left the group. He then wrote a book on the lies of Ellen G. White, exposing her money schemes, her false date-setting, her trickery and controlling nature, and her false doctrines.

The text of this book is available on many websites, and is public domain (published in 1919).

Is anyone interested in having this book made into an e-Sword module?

[LarryG]

What I would REALLY like is one dealing with Mormons... They're going to be a really 'hot commodity' in the near future, in my opinion, and I'm dumber than a stump about all their false doctrines.

[BaptizedBeliever]

A great book for that (and I've not found the text online except for a scanned PDF) is "Mormonism Exposed", a book written in the 1800s by a guy who had converted to Mormonism and went with Brigham Young to Salt Lake City.

Unfortunately, I'm not exactly sure which of the books listed at Google Books is the one I'm referring to. I have a very good friend who has it and told me about it. I think it is the one by Sunderland, but I'm not 100% sure.

https://www.google.c...iw=1366&bih=626

It would need to be OCR'd and proofread.

I also know of a book called "The Book of Mormon: a Book of Error and Fraud" that I might be able to get permission to convert into a module (I frequently chat with the author).

I would also recommend the e-Sword file "Delusions: An Analysis of the Book of Mormon" which came out a mere two years after the Book of Mormon (a plagarized version of a sci-fi book with some -eth's thrown in to make it sound religious). http://www.biblesupp...of-mormon-1832/

[Ebed Doulos]

I am always leery about expose type books, though my library would convict me as it contains a bunch of such books. At least half a shelf. That said, I've learned over the years that I prefer to go to the denomination itself and then make up my own mind rather than have someone else put his spin on it and spoon feed me his tripe. I would hope that if the shoe was on the other foot, that others would treat my own denomination fairly. "Do unto others ... etc."

I'm told that "How Wide the Divide" is a good book on Mormonism but I've not yet got around to reading it.

Edit: I looked it up on Amazon and it is inexpensive.
http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0830819916

Edited by Ebed Doulos, 07 September 2012 - 10:53 PM.

[BaptizedBeliever]

I agree. However, if it comes from someone who was once in that religion, and he gives a historical account of what happened while he was involved, I believe it would be useful.

The problem with Mormons is that they have a very bad habit of hiding many of the things they believe and teach from "outsiders." Try asking the next Mormon "elders" who come to your door if they are wearing their ceremonial underwear. And no, this isn't a joke. Ask them about the time that Joseph Smith's wife balked at the idea that he could have extra wives, and so within a few days, he had a revelation from God, directed at her, basically saying, "he can have all the wives he wants."

If people in a denomination would be honest and forthright enough to answer the questions and explain all of their beliefs, that'd be great. Unfortunately, Mormonism isn't either.

On the other hand, I know some J.W.s who are very open with answering any question and providing any material (for free) that you might want. Perhaps it's because they're somewhat related (related to my in-laws), but they were very happy to answer anything I had to ask without being pushy. They're still wrong, but at least they were open about it.

-Brad

[david psalms]

Please prepare the module. it is always good to educate people and bring them to light

[Ebed Doulos]

I agree. However, if it comes from someone who was once in that religion, and he gives a historical account of what happened while he was involved, I believe it would be useful. The problem with Mormons is that they have a very bad habit of hiding many of the things they believe and teach from "outsiders." Try asking the next Mormon "elders" who come to your door if they are wearing their ceremonial underwear. And no, this isn't a joke. Ask them about the time that Joseph Smith's wife balked at the idea that he could have extra wives, and so within a few days, he had a revelation from God, directed at her, basically saying, "he can have all the wives he wants." If people in a denomination would be honest and forthright enough to answer the questions and explain all of their beliefs, that'd be great. Unfortunately, Mormonism isn't either. On the other hand, I know some J.W.s who are very open with answering any question and providing any material (for free) that you might want. Perhaps it's because they're somewhat related (related to my in-laws), but they were very happy to answer anything I had to ask without being pushy. They're still wrong, but at least they were open about it. -Brad

As a preface, I've done quite a bit of personal research on the Mormons (and Jehovah's Witnesses, Evangelicals, Catholics, 7th Day Adventists, Christian Scientists, Moonies, Muslims, Scientology, and a whole slew of other religious movements).

That said, I do believe that if you asked about my underwear, ceremonial or otherwise, I would think you were creepy. If you asked my wife, she'd slap you. And you might very well mistake my disgust, disdain and the punch you get in the nose as me trying to hide something. Just sayin' ...

As for a polygamy revelation it would appear that there is some argument about it within the various Mormon factions. Yes, there are several Mormon factions; at least a couple of dozen that I've run across in my research. Some of the Mormons (Brighamites/Utah) say Joseph Smith received the Revelation. They still publish it and accept it as scripture, even though the Brighamite faction has not practiced polygamy for over a century. The faction followed by Smith's first wife and son/heir (Josephites/Missouri) originally denied such a revelation ever existed. Consequently, the Josephite faction never practiced polygamy. In fact it appears as though Emma said of the story told by the Brighamite faction: "It is false in all its parts, made out of whole cloth, without any foundation in truth." The Brighamite faction counters this with a list of Smith's wives, all of whom he obviously married while married to his first wife. So if Smith received the revelation and Young did not fake it, then the story is factual. On the other hand if Young faked the revelation, then Joseph could not have used it to pressure his wife into accepting polygamy. Either way, the Mormons do not appear to be hiding much if anything. One interesting factoid is that recently the Josephite faction seems to have accepted the polygamous history of Smith.

In short:
It is creepy to inquire about what kind of underwear people might be wearing.
The Brighamite faction "hide" the revelation in their scriptures: https://www.lds.org/...dc/132?lang=eng.
The Josephite faction originally "hid" the revelation by denying its authenticity and very existence and denying that Smith had more than one wife. http://en.wikipedia...._Saint_polygamy
However, the Josephite faction is now "hiding" the possibility that Smith did indeed practice polygamy. http://www.cofchrist...urfaith/faq.asp
The Brighamite faction "hide" the names and numbers of Smith's wives on their official genealogy website. https://familysearch...M9.2.1/9S9S-PD2

If the Mormons are hiding something, they are not doing a very good job, now are they?

This is the reason why I like to do my own research and make up my own mind. It is waaaaay more fun.

Edited by Ebed Doulos, 08 September 2012 - 11:23 AM.

[BaptizedBeliever]

Ebed,

My comments were in reference to the typical Mormons. When speaking to most people, it isn't advantageous to go into each division of each group. I know a former Mormon who had many of the official Mormon books from his time in that group. When he left, they sent him letters demanding return of the books (which he had bought). When that didn't work, they harassed him by phone to get the books back. Then they sent people pounding on his door. A restraining order was necessary to keep them away. He gave the books to one of my former teachers.

There are many things that those who are steeped in Mormonism are permitted to know, that they don't want outsiders to know about.

That was the Salt Lake City branch.

On the other hand, one retired Mormon preacher from the Independence, MO branch sold me a bunch of his library at a yard sale at 25 cents per book. That was a decent yard sale.

-Brad

[BaptizedBeliever]

The Life of Ellen G. White is available for e-Sword.

http://www.biblesupp...s-refuted-1919/

-Brad

[jonathon]

That said, I do believe that if you asked about my underwear, ceremonial or otherwise, I would think you were creepy.

Somewhere in the missionary training material is a documents that covers what missionaries are supposed to say. when asked about that, and similar, sensative issues.

For those who are not Temple Certified, Temple Garments are an unusual item. In theory, these garments are neither shown, nor described to non-Members. In practice. Let's just say that the employees of Deseret Industries don't always adhere to the letter, in the rules of the organization that owns them.

These are not, however, the most unusual item in the wardrobe of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

As for a polygamy revelation it would appear that there is some argument about it within the various Mormon factions.

It does not really matter when, or even if there was a specific revelation about polygamy. Polygamy was a non-viable solution to a group of specific issues and problems within the church. Its non-viability is best seen within those groups that still practice polygamy. EG The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Brighamites/Utah

It would be much simpler all round, to use the name of the specific group, rather than the non-specific "Brighamites" or "Jospephites". There are half a dozen defunct groups that never were part of either those who went with Brigham Young, nor Joseph Smith III.

jonathon