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Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament


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#21 BigPaw

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:14 PM

My requests are made without knowledge of their copyright status, I haven't looked into how to establish if they are or not. Besides, some of these books are so expensive that I would rather get a glimpse of them first before purchasing - as it is disappointing to come across a resource only to find that it is mostly sentimental supposition. The facts that make faith will align themselves as naturally as perfect spheres brought together, truth can speak for itself. This is why I prefer reference works that give you details to work with, and not just someone's opinion. So I am grateful that the people who put these fine modules together do so in such a fine way, and if I can get a glimpse of what I can purchase before throwing my money away at some resources that offers nothing to my ever growing understanding of my Father, What makes these people feel that they should get paid for something that Jesus did freely? :unsure:

#22 journey

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:51 AM

A worker or group of workers are many times more than worthy of receiving the wages they request. In this case, we have reviews, and we are in total control of whether we buy or not buy. So, if you don't think it's worth the price, don't buy it. Go explore free resources that might achieve what you want done.

Philippians 4:6-7 (KJV)
6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

 


#23 BigPaw

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:37 PM

If you calculate how long a certain publication has been available along with income generated, you will often find it has paid for itself so many times over that the publication just becomes a means for profit. Personally, I don't see a justification for that with publications purposed for Christian use, people should not profit by any of it.

Reviews can be helpful to a degree, but I take the salvation offered to me very personally - as Paul penned it at Galatians 2:20. There are some resources I have downloaded that are based more on sentimentality than on Faith. There are some that are suppositional. In a book shop I can open the book, read some of it, check the authors commitment to accuracy in places.

Accurate teachings are important to me.

#24 LarryG

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:39 PM

Accurate teachings are important to me.


Amen! That's exactly why it's imperitive for a Christian to obey the law. Even Christ thought it was important to pay the temple tribute.

#25 Bradley S. Cobb

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:48 PM

The majority of pay e-Sword resources can be found in other formats online. All of the pay Bibles can be read for free online. Most of the pay commentaries can at least be read in part online (almost every one can be previewed somewhere online).

The workman is worthy of his hire. Just as a preacher has a right to be paid, so does a person who preaches via the written word.
Head Writer at The Cobb Six.

#26 BigPaw

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:50 AM

Taxes, justifiable salaries, are all well and good and a Christian requirement as Romans 13:1-4 explains.But, if you were to purchase a car from a used car dealer, would you pay the original price for the car? If it was a rare car, you may pay for more than its original value. However, these libraries are not rare, they have been around for a long time and have been purchased many times over.

I would expect a book company that prints and binds books to place a cost on them. But, why place such a high cost on a book, or set of books, that are in an electronic format, and distributed electronically? They simply do not have the same overheads.

There is no justification for stealing as Proverbs 6:30-31 shows, so while the current arrangement is in place, so be it. I am just questioning/discussing the ethics of profiteering to the extent they are with electronic books, and what's more, books based around the Bible. Didn't Jesus overturn tables and chase animals out of the temple area for this reason?

If this discussion is upsetting anyone I won't discuss it further, as that is not what I want to do, but it is a helpful topic to get to the bottom of.

#27 Josh Bond

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:27 AM

Taxes, justifiable salaries, are all well and good and a Christian requirement as Romans 13:1-4 explains.But, if you were to purchase a car from a used car dealer, would you pay the original price for the car? If it was a rare car, you may pay for more than its original value. However, these libraries are not rare, they have been around for a long time and have been purchased many times over.

I would expect a book company that prints and binds books to place a cost on them. But, why place such a high cost on a book, or set of books, that are in an electronic format, and distributed electronically? They simply do not have the same overheads.

There is no justification for stealing as Proverbs 6:30-31 shows, so while the current arrangement is in place, so be it. I am just questioning/discussing the ethics of profiteering to the extent they are with electronic books, and what's more, books based around the Bible. Didn't Jesus overturn tables and chase animals out of the temple area for this reason?

If this discussion is upsetting anyone I won't discuss it further, as that is not what I want to do, but it is a helpful topic to get to the bottom of.


I would not agree that it's stealing to earn a profit on books, movies, music, etc. There's nothing wrong with making a movie for 45 million, getting 400 million during it's theater showings in the US, 600 million overseas, and then annual DVD/BlueRay sales (probably forever). --Even if that movie is religious, like: Passion of the Christ.

Or, writing a song and receiving royalty payments when it's played on the radio. The banjo player for Smokey and the Bandit didn't want to make room in his schedule for the recording, it didn't pay hardly anything, and he didn't think the royalty-only contract would ever pay much. Then the movies were larger than life. And it's been played on the radio ever since and he made more off that recording than he did on all other recordings--for one recording session.

Patrick Swayzee wrote songs that now earned royalty payments the rest of his life, and now for his heirs.

If you spend a number of years making a Biblical reference work that tries to reproduce (or approximate) the same meaning in English and in our culture that a language had 2,000 or 4,000 years ago, you should be paid. Some modern reference works would not (and could not) have been created if the author(s) could not sell the work when finished.

#28 jonathon

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:13 PM

why place such a high cost on a book, or set of books, that are in an electronic format, and distributed electronically? They simply do not have the same overheads.


The only difference in cost, between hard copy book production, and eBook production is the bill from the printer. All of the other costs are the same.

Distribution is a slightly different matter. The publisher is completely at the mercy of the integrity of the eBook vendor. Unlike hard copy books, there is no physical inventory which can be tracked.

I am just questioning/discussing the ethics of profiteering to the extent they are with electronic books


Data on eBook sales, and more importantly, publisher's profit, is both scanty and unreliable. That said, the published data suggests that you won't lose as much money publishing eBooks, as you would publishing hard copy, but that profitability gap is extremely narrow, and is getting narrower.

Hard copy publishers stay in business becuase one book in a hundred generates enough revenue to pay for the ninety books they published that lost money. The remaining nine books in a hundred generate enough sales to pay their own way.

Whilst nobody knows if that trend will hold true for eBook publishing, what publishers have claimed, is that eBooks sustain print sales. Given the average price of an eBook, I suspect that the numbers will change to one in a thousand titles will keep the publisher afloat, with, maybe, one in ten titles paying their own way. The remaining 900 titles will lose money.

and what's more, books based around the Bible.


It was only with the growth of the Protestant Missionary Outreach of the eighteenth century, that the idea that Christian material should be delivered gratis, or at publisher's cost, arose. Very few publishers bought into that idea. Prior to that period, Bibles, and related content sold at a premium price. Since then, publishers have used the Bible as one of the books that help keep the company afloat.

jonathon

#29 BigPaw

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:59 AM

I would not agree that it's stealing to earn a profit on books, movies, music, etc. There's nothing wrong with making a movie for 45 million, getting 400 million during it's theater showings in the US, 600 million overseas, and then annual DVD/BlueRay sales (probably forever). --Even if that movie is religious, like: Passion of the Christ.


Sorry for this misunderstanding, when I referred to stealing in my comment it was to clarify that stealing is wrong, and that I wasn't trying to justify such activity by the comments I had made earlier in the discussion. It would be wrong for me to throw a 'stealing' blanket over every endeavour.

Or, writing a song and receiving royalty payments when it's played on the radio. The banjo player for Smokey and the Bandit didn't want to make room in his schedule for the recording, it didn't pay hardly anything, and he didn't think the royalty-only contract would ever pay much. Then the movies were larger than life. And it's been played on the radio ever since and he made more off that recording than he did on all other recordings--for one recording session.

Patrick Swayzee wrote songs that now earned royalty payments the rest of his life, and now for his heirs.


If I had any kind of talent like this I would want to achieve the same, no doubt about it... in fact I could probably earn a living by people paying me to stop singing! :-)

If you spend a number of years making a Biblical reference work that tries to reproduce (or approximate) the same meaning in English and in our culture that a language had 2,000 or 4,000 years ago, you should be paid. Some modern reference works would not (and could not) have been created if the author(s) could not sell the work when finished.


This is were we differ, if I may. Or, maybe I am misunderstanding what exactly Jesus was dealing with in those matters pertaining to the businessmen in the temple, as the Bible describes at John 2:14-16. That tremendous missionary, Paul, he did not use his ministry as a business enterprise as the Bible at 2 Corinthians 2:17 explains. And, our Almighty God, in His graciousness did not put anything beyond the reach of his servants as the Holy Scriptures relate in 2 Corinthians 9:7.

The only difference in cost, between hard copy book production, and eBook production is the bill from the printer. All of the other costs are the same.

Distribution is a slightly different matter. The publisher is completely at the mercy of the integrity of the eBook vendor. Unlike hard copy books, there is no physical inventory which can be tracked.



Data on eBook sales, and more importantly, publisher's profit, is both scanty and unreliable. That said, the published data suggests that you won't lose as much money publishing eBooks, as you would publishing hard copy, but that profitability gap is extremely narrow, and is getting narrower.

Hard copy publishers stay in business becuase one book in a hundred generates enough revenue to pay for the ninety books they published that lost money. The remaining nine books in a hundred generate enough sales to pay their own way.

Whilst nobody knows if that trend will hold true for eBook publishing, what publishers have claimed, is that eBooks sustain print sales. Given the average price of an eBook, I suspect that the numbers will change to one in a thousand titles will keep the publisher afloat, with, maybe, one in ten titles paying their own way. The remaining 900 titles will lose money.


I agree, that is the way things are done now, but we are talking about the cure for all the world's worst illnesses - and especially that of sin. Should we treat that as a business enterprise, in the light of what the Lord Jesus Christ says? When you think of the letters that Paul wrote, he did those things while working on tents in the market place.

It was only with the growth of the Protestant Missionary Outreach of the eighteenth century, that the idea that Christian material should be delivered gratis, or at publisher's cost, arose. Very few publishers bought into that idea. Prior to that period, Bibles, and related content sold at a premium price. Since then, publishers have used the Bible as one of the books that help keep the company afloat.


That's saddening. Thank you, that's a little history I didn't know.

I know we're disagreeing on some things, but I hope that this is only healthy discussion. It's quite common for British people to sound 'superior', it's a culture thing. But, please know that I do respect you, and your feelings, and would not want to upset anyone in the way that I express myself. Please tell me if this is the case.

#30 jonathon

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 01:33 PM

There's nothing wrong with making a movie for 45 million, getting 400 million during it's theater showings in the US, 600 million overseas, and then annual DVD/BlueRay sales (probably forever).


Thanks to "Hollywood Accounting", most movies show a net loss.

IOW, even if the movie grossed US$400,000,000, and it allegedly cost US$40,000,000, the other expenses dragged the profit from whatever, to a negative figure, such as -US$100,000,000.

jonathon




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