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New World Translation


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#11 BigPaw

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 12:47 PM

That's all well and good to say, except the Jehovah's Witnesses claim that their writings are inspired, that God speaks through the Watchtower publishing department.  So if they printed a lie (which they did) and claimed it was inspired (which they did), then it isn't a "misunderstanding."  It is a lie.

If they claim to be inspired then that would certainly be detrimental as you say. I'm just referring to a conversation that I've had in the past and I was told the only inspired publication they have today is God's Holy Word the Bible. It was interesting to me that they referred to their other publications as a sort of tour guide to the Bible.

 

They compared the Bible to a vast historical building in the ongoing process of being explored and excavated. Sometimes they update their guides as they get a better understanding of its construction and numerous functions. This seemed like an over-simplification of the Bible to me, but that was the answer I got to my question. Maybe you were told differently, or have read differently in their literature?



#12 NeonMadman01

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 09:34 AM


 

BigPaw, on 07 Sept 2016 - 2:47 PM, said:


If they claim to be inspired then that would certainly be detrimental as you say. I'm just referring to a conversation that I've had in the past and I was told the only inspired publication they have today is God's Holy Word the Bible. It was interesting to me that they referred to their other publications as a sort of tour guide to the Bible.


 

 

Perhaps the following quotations from Watchtower publications would be of interest to you:

 

We see no reason for changing the figures-nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.
Zion’s Watch Tower, July 15, 1894 (Watch Tower Reprints, p. 1677) 
 

We resolve that we shall obey all instruction received from the Watch Tower, knowing that such proceed from the higher powers, Jehovah God and Christ Jesus. We resolve to be completely obedient to the Society as the visible part of the Great Theocracy.
The Watchtower, February 1, 1940, p. 47
 
The Watchtower does not consist of men's opinions.
The Watchtower, January 1, 1942, p. 5 

 

This is not giving any credit to the magazine's [The Watchtower's] publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with its truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies. He it is that makes possible the material that is published in the columns of this magazine.
The Watchtower, April 15, 1943, p. 127 

 

Jehovah's prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: 'This generation (of 1914) will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son's words in a relatively short time.
The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, p. 5-7 

 

Jehovah had a work for them to do… He put his “words,” his message, into the mouth of his servants for them to proclaim earth wide. 

Survival Into a New Earth (1984), p. 109 

 

You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah's Witnesses.
Awake! June 8, 1986, p. 9 

 

Why Awake! is Published … Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away. 
Awake! Masthead, all issues from 1988 through October 22, 1995 

 

The writers of Watchtower publications avoid the use of the specific word, "inspired" to describe their writings so that, when confronted with their failed predictions, they can excuse them by saying that they "don't claim to be inspired." But their claims regarding what they publish are tantamount to a claim of inspiration. To say, "we don't claim that our publications are inspired," but then to say that the teachings in the Watchtower are not the opinions of men, that Jehovah has put his words into their mouths, that all of them are prophets, that their teachings proceed from Jehovah God and Christ Jesus, and to refer to their failed predictions as "Jehovah's prophetic word" and "the Creator's promise" is to make a distinction without a difference. They claim to be inspired in every possible way except for the actual use of the word. Since the predictions they have presented have failed consistently, there is no alternative but to regard Jehovah's Witnesses as false prophets in the biblical sense of the word. Note Deuteronomy 18:20-22:

 


 

"But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him."

 

Notice that the text doesn't say that the prophet needs to claim to be "inspired." It is only necessary that he "speaks in the name of the LORD. [Jehovah]" JWs certainly do claim to speak in the name of Jehovah, and, as the quotations above show, they have claimed to be His prophets. According to these verses, their teachings constitute "a word that the LORD has not spoken." They are false prophets and should not be followed.


Edited by NeonMadman01, 10 September 2016 - 09:39 AM.


#13 BigPaw

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 05:10 AM


Perhaps the following quotations from Watchtower publications would be of interest to you:

Here is a problem now. I don't know who you are, or your position on what is involved in being faithful and obedient to God. I don't know if you have read the Bible, or the entirety of those articles you quote, I know that I haven't read the entirety of those articles and I doubt it for some of them at least that you have either. So, maybe you could explain scripturally what is right or wrong with the quotes you have there and how it should be corrected? Also, maybe you could help with your obvious access to these resources to establish whether these quotes actually correspond with current teachings expressed by Jehovah's Witnesses?

The point I'm making here is would you refuse to see a medical professional today because in the past the medical profession used to think Heroin was a good cough mixture, morphine a good baby pacifier, lobotomy with an ice pick the best thing for mood disorders. Do you not listen to scientists because they once thought that the earth was at the centre of the universe, or that the earth was flat?

When Jehovah's Witnesses learned that Christmas was wrong they stopped it, etc, etc. It's good that they've remained loyal to the Bible's Christian teachings on the sinfulness of homosexuality while all churches have begun accepting it for the sake of money and popularity. What about now, today?

Edited by BigPaw, 11 September 2016 - 05:16 AM.


#14 Bradley S. Cobb

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 11:14 AM

If someone claims to be inspired, to be giving God's message, and they teach something false, then that means they are false prophets.  

 

They've been proven as false prophets time and time again, and finally they stopped announcing dates for the coming of Christ because they lost nearly half their membership in the 70s over it.  

 

They deny the deity of Christ, claim only 144,000 will be in heaven (though I heard one say they "found" another 144,000 would make it there), deny the reality of hell, and also teach a doctrine that amounts to Extreme Makeover: Earth Edition.

 

And for the record, your assertion about "all churches have begun accepting [homosexuality] for the sake of money and popularity" is a lie, slander, and leads one to the conclusion that you're not really interested in what the J.W.'s teach, claim, and are built on.  Very few "churches" have accepted homosexuality--and even among those that have, most of their congregations reject it. 


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#15 BigPaw

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 02:43 PM

I love having Bible based discussions on any level, but I'm inclined to agree with one comment a Witness made in that occasionally they meet a person who can sometimes be so locked into the mindset of disagreeing that they miss the concepts being discussed or don't hear what has already been said. It's almost as if they just are reciting things they've heard rather than researched and have proved for themselves.

 

A guy once said that Jesus was a sort of drone, remotely controlled by God. When I learned of this discussion I wondered how such a thought could be answered. I don't think there's a YouTube video or webpage for anyone to parrot an answer on that one. Anyway, I was highly impressed that the Witness had a Bible based answer for him. The Witness showed the guy the scripture where Jesus asked that he not drink from the cup he has been given, but then says let God's will be done. Here we see Jesus using his free-will indicating that he isn't a drone of any kind but a fully sentient individual who made choices.

 

It was incredible to me to learn that this guy just parroted what he said before. He didn't even have anything from the Bible to back-up his idea. The Witness said it was like something, or someone, was blocking his mind.

 

I've checked this and the Witnesses don't believe they are inspired. Revelation talks about the 144000. Does anyone still believe in Hell? All the churches have begun, are beginning to, accept homosexuality.

 

It's not a problem if you disagree, but it's better if you disagree because of a Bible authorised teaching



#16 Bradley S. Cobb

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 04:09 PM

I disagree because you're making things up.

 

The Witnesses made claims of inspiration for years (examples of which were given by a previous comment, but which you disregarded without addressing).  They make literally millions of dollars a year selling their false doctrine.

 

Yes, there are people who believe that Jesus said the wicked would go to a place where there would be "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (which can't happen if you're annihilated).  

 

And again, you have just parroted what you've heard JWs (and I'm not convinced you aren't one) say about different doctrines and about "all churches."  No evidence given, no acknowledgement that well over 90% of the churches REJECT homosexuality.  Just parroting the JW talking points.

 

And if you really want to go there with the 144,000, if that is to be taken as a literal number (Revelation 1:1 says these things were told in signs--symbols), then the rest of the description must also be taken literally: no women in heaven.  No married men in heaven.  No Gentiles in heaven.  Of course, the JWs ignore those parts of what is said regarding the 144,000, but that's their M.O.  They ignore the verses that they don't like, and hope they don't run into anyone who has actually read their Bible before.  I've seen them actually pulling their own hair out because they were seeing that the Bible contradicted their own claims.  I've seen the look of confusion on their faces when presented with book, chapter, and verse.

 

You're basing your praise for the JW on the fact that a guy (who?  where?  when?  Are you making him up?) thought Jesus was a drone, controlled by God.  Dude, ANY PREACHER FOR ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP could have answered that question.  


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#17 Katoog

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 11:32 PM


 

And if you really want to go there with the 144,000, if that is to be taken as a literal number (Revelation 1:1 says these things were told in signs--symbols), then the rest of the description must also be taken literally: no women in heaven.  No married men in heaven.  No Gentiles in heaven.  Of course, the JWs ignore those parts of what is said regarding the 144,000, but that's their M.O.  They ignore the verses that they don't like, and hope they don't run into anyone who has actually read their Bible before.  I've seen them actually pulling their own hair out because they were seeing that the Bible contradicted their own claims.  I've seen the look of confusion on their faces when presented with book, chapter, and verse.

 

Did they also read Rev 7:9? The 144.000 are not the only and where are the signs symbols in Rev 1:1?

Are they aware that allegory explains nothing and that the Bible Itself explain the symbols?

 lampstands=churches (see Rev 1:20)

 

Rev 1:1  Scroll 49 Revelation.
              Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him,
              to show to His servants things which must shortly come to pass;
              and He sent and signified it by His Angel to His servant John:


Edited by Katoog, 13 September 2016 - 04:06 AM.

Restored Holy Bible(9.0) and the Restored Textus Receptus

http://rhb.altervista.org/homepage.htm


#18 BigPaw

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 02:08 AM

You are entitled to listen to whomever you want. I've found the Witnesses easygoing, and I can drop in all kinds of humdinger questions into my conversations with them each week and I'm never berated for doing so. My answers are always found in this awesomely profound book, the Bible.

 

You are also entitled to keep going to your churches with their practicing homosexuals, et al. Also, the story about the guy who thought that Jesus was some kind of drone apparently came from something he learned from some big church conference where they were also discussing the role of evolution. Now, that wasn't a hundred years ago, or 30 years ago, they are very, very recent beliefs advocated by the churches. If you want all of that in your churches, you are welcome to it. At the end of the day I'm not the judge. But, I like and can see the logic of what the Witnesses show from the Bible on these subjects.



#19 Josh Bond

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 09:43 AM

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And that concludes this exciting episode of "Jehovah's Witnesses"! Thanks for watching and check back in a year or two when this periodically obligatory topic arises again. :)

 

Josh






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