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TDOT & TDNT


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#1 BigPaw

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:04 PM

I'm desperately searching for these two modules, Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament and Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. I'm suspecting they haven't been made yet. I'm a heavy user of dictionary resources in my study of the Bible.

 

I've used those titles as search terms with this site but as yet they haven't shown up for me. So, if they are here could you kindly just drop me a link to them, please?

 

The books themselves were written in the early 1800's, so there won't be an issue with copyright, etc. If you can help me I would be so grateful.

 

Thanks in anticipation.  :-)



#2 Tj Higgins

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:17 PM

I'm desperately searching for these two modules, Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament and Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. I'm suspecting they haven't been made yet. I'm a heavy user of dictionary resources in my study of the Bible.

 

I've used those titles as search terms with this site but as yet they haven't shown up for me. So, if they are here could you kindly just drop me a link to them, please?

 

The books themselves were written in the early 1800's, so there won't be an issue with copyright, etc. If you can help me I would be so grateful.

 

Thanks in anticipation.  :-)

 

Both the TDOT and TDNT are currently published by Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co which means they are in fact copyrighted. In order to have them available for E-Sword they would most likely have to be premium or pay modules 



#3 BigPaw

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 04:00 PM

Both the TDOT and TDNT are currently published by Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co which means they are in fact copyrighted. In order to have them available for E-Sword they would most likely have to be premium or pay modules 

 

Marvellous, that's really disappointing. These dictionaries are allegedly quite comprehensive.

 

Thanks for your speedy help TJ.



#4 Tj Higgins

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:14 PM

Marvellous, that's really disappointing. These dictionaries are allegedly quite comprehensive.

 

Thanks for your speedy help TJ.

They are available for Logos Bible Software however they are priced at $699.00



#5 anh Mike

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:33 PM

CBD sometimes has the  TDNT hard copies at $99.  U can scan pp.  as for TDOT get pages if possible thru public library or try to get into theological library or university that may be near you.   Otherwise wait for logos to have a sale and dish out the big bucks.  My Hebrew prof. suggested, in the 90's, use TDOT

 in the library unless U plan PHD studies. I wz not too impressed with TDOT after doing a couple of word studies it did not seem worth the price tag.  My 2 cents.


Edited by anh Mike, 04 April 2017 - 10:45 AM.


#6 BigPaw

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 03:48 PM

CBD sometimes has the  TDNT hard copies at $99.  U can scan pp.  as for TDOT get pages if possible thru public library or try to get into theological library or university that may be near you.   Otherwise wait for logos to have a sale and dish out the big bucks.  My Hebrew prof. suggested, in the 90's, use TDOT

 in the library unless U plan PHD studies. I wz not too impressed with TDOT after doing a couple of word studies it did not seem worth the price tag.  My 2 cents.

 

Thanks Mike.

 

There are two versions of the TDOT from what I've heard. There's a single volume abridgement, and a 15 volume set. Which did you use?



#7 anh Mike

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 05:02 PM

1 from the 15 volume set.  I never heard of the a single volume abridgement for TDOT.  I searched but nothing. TDNT has a single volume abridgement, which is floating around somewhere.

 

 

1 study was kabod, glory in Isaiah so when I checked TDOT and NIDOTTE (I own this set). I was not impressed w. lack of thoroughness of the articles and their headings of usage.  I do not have the photocopies of the articles either to ,make clearer my comment. 

 

 

 

There are Greek and Hebrew forums where people have access to these sets and you could ask for an article or 2 concerning your word (s).

 

More advice on word studies.

 

 

Find the Greek, or Hebrew-Aramaic word or locate its Strong or G/K number. When studying a word determine the number occurrences. If a word appears 50-100x, study 50% appearances; word appears 25-50x, study 25 appearances. If 15 to 25x appearances, then study all. 1x to 15x, study all appearances, Liddel and Scott’s lexicon and appearances in LXX (Greek only). However, for best results study all or most occurrences in their contexts; note people, places, and things in connection. Do not force all lexical meanings on the word, nor sensationalize, but choose the definition fits the context. A word can have a literal or figurative meaning. Check the conclusion with word study books, lexicons, Theological/Bible dictionaries (Encyclopedias), and commentaries.

 

For best results Study all occurrences of your word, unknown words, words appearing many times, and cognates. If studying Greek begin with the book, then author, rest of New Testament writings and then Lxx. If studying Hebrew-Aramaic begin with the book, then author, type of literature (prophets, poetic books, narrative).

 

after you do a word study then check the resources you wanted to see if they are worth the expense.


Edited by anh Mike, 04 April 2017 - 08:38 PM.


#8 anh Mike

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 08:35 PM

1 + cent.  I found this maybe it will assist. I agree with this as well. Quotes (not my comments):

 

 "I own all 15 current volumes of TDOT and plan to buy the last volume in English, if it is ever translated. I also own Jenni-Westermann and Koehler-Baumgartner. I bought TDOT volume by volume as it came out, but I never paid full price for a volume. I bought it through Christian Book Distributors, and even got the first couple volumes on sale. I was working on my master's in OT when I started to purchase TDOT, and I already had TDNT, so I wanted to "complete the set" and be "up to date" on the latest scholarship.
Was it worth the price? No. I hardly ever used it for my studies. I almost never use it now. I get enough information from HALOT and BDB within BibleWorks to give me a good idea about what the Hebrew words mean. I learn more by doing my own word studies after doing a lemma search in BW and actually reading the passages. Before BW it was a definite help for someone else to have looked up all the passages for a given lemma and laid them all out on a few pages. But now I can do that myself. If I were interested in cognate languages to Hebrew, TDOT would be the place I would check. But for sermon and Bible study preparation that has never been necessary. (Most of my people think I alread go into too much detail.) Even when I was doing my master's thesis, I found Jenni-Westermann (in German, before it was translated) more helpful than TDOT. J-W is more concise. I also do not have much heart any more to subject myself to lots of things I know will be wrong, since TDOT is higher critical through and through. I just cannot swallow all the speculation, e.g. about "late" Hebrew in the Pentateuch, alleged multiple authors of the prophets, etc. I prefer to learn from my reference books, not argue with them.
My 2 cents' worth."
Mark Eddy

source:  https://www.biblewor...-Old-Testament.

 

 

 "I agree with Mark. I used to own TDOT,but I ended up selling it (I bought it for a song - $15/vol. at a CBD sale... Those were the good old days when you could haggle at the warehouse). With the tools you have already, you should be more than set for pastoral teaching. Unless you were planning on going into Semitic lexicography, I'd imagine that TDOT is more a vanity purchase than anything."

Jim Darlack - Associate Director of Goddard Library /
Reference Librarian at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary

Last edited by Mark Eddy; 11-01-2012 at 12:01 AM

https://books.google...epage&q&f=false

 google has previews, which I am surprised but.

Edited by anh Mike, 04 April 2017 - 08:51 PM.


#9 BigPaw

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 03:25 PM

 

1 + cent.  I found this maybe it will assist. I agree with this as well. Quotes (not my comments):

 

 "I own all 15 current volumes of TDOT and plan to buy the last volume in English, if it is ever translated. I also own Jenni-Westermann and Koehler-Baumgartner. I bought TDOT volume by volume as it came out, but I never paid full price for a volume. I bought it through Christian Book Distributors, and even got the first couple volumes on sale. I was working on my master's in OT when I started to purchase TDOT, and I already had TDNT, so I wanted to "complete the set" and be "up to date" on the latest scholarship.
Was it worth the price? No. I hardly ever used it for my studies. I almost never use it now. I get enough information from HALOT and BDB within BibleWorks to give me a good idea about what the Hebrew words mean. I learn more by doing my own word studies after doing a lemma search in BW and actually reading the passages. Before BW it was a definite help for someone else to have looked up all the passages for a given lemma and laid them all out on a few pages. But now I can do that myself. If I were interested in cognate languages to Hebrew, TDOT would be the place I would check. But for sermon and Bible study preparation that has never been necessary. (Most of my people think I alread go into too much detail.) Even when I was doing my master's thesis, I found Jenni-Westermann (in German, before it was translated) more helpful than TDOT. J-W is more concise. I also do not have much heart any more to subject myself to lots of things I know will be wrong, since TDOT is higher critical through and through. I just cannot swallow all the speculation, e.g. about "late" Hebrew in the Pentateuch, alleged multiple authors of the prophets, etc. I prefer to learn from my reference books, not argue with them.
My 2 cents' worth."
Mark Eddy

 



https://books.google...epage&q&f=false

 google has previews, which I am surprised but.source:  https://www.biblewor...-Old-Testament.

 

 

 "I agree with Mark. I used to own TDOT,but I ended up selling it (I bought it for a song - $15/vol. at a CBD sale... Those were the good old days when you could haggle at the warehouse). With the tools you have already, you should be more than set for pastoral teaching. Unless you were planning on going into Semitic lexicography, I'd imagine that TDOT is more a vanity purchase than anything."

Jim Darlack - Associate Director of Goddard Library /
Reference Librarian at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary

Last edited by Mark Eddy; 11-01-2012 at 12:01 AM

 

Mike, your explanation and experience here is fascinating. I'm grateful for your advice on doing word studies in the previous post too. I've genuinely taken on board your view on this set. The link you provided to the Google previews, I've got to admit, I found very interesting and read every page they displayed.

 

Research and study of the Bible is central to my way of life and as the saying goes, I like to keep my mind open to new thoughts but not so open my brain falls out, so-to-speak. So, I'd like to think that I'm a discerning reader with a strong feel for the 'grammar' or theme of the Bible. My approach is to hear what the scripture teaches, and then to look more closely at its height, breadth and depth. For example, in the preview provided in the Google link you shared gave me an insight on the culture that Moses had grown up around, and what mindset he had to contend with while delivering our God's requirements to Pharaoh.

 

Bearing in mind your view and insight I'm definitely going to check out more previews and reviews.

 

Thank you Mike.



#10 anh Mike

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 12:15 PM

It may save one time if they skim the heading in dictionaries and commentaries sections after completing the study of references.  You may find the results may not be exact like I did.  I do mean that the authors are wrong but, perhaps, they did not study the references. 

 

I would not ignore the free dictionaries in e-sword even though they are linguistically outdated.  Logos is offering a free dictionary w. their FREE Basic ver. 7.  There are other items for free as well (on some some poking around will help). 

 

https://www.logos.com/basic






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