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#11 LarryG

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:13 AM


I think that's an excellent idea! However....


It's 4am in the morning and I've been thinking about this for a few hours.

I'm sorry Cato and Jonathon, but I was wrong. This is not a good idea to have a moderator to keep track of resources being converted into modules.

Why? It's basically a 'make-work' task without any workable and well-defined goal. Little if anything could be accomplished. The results would be negligible with regards to the efforts being invested. Let me tell you a story - everyone likes stories, even Jesus told a few.

Once there was a bachelor who lived alone in a rather large apartment. Like many of his peers, his housekeeping skills weren't anything to write home about. He had a monster size library, a good job and made lots of money. He had a few bad habits though, one of which was being responsible with his money. There were 3-4 containers filled with lose change all around the house; bedroom, on one of the library shelves, in his desk drawer, the kitchen table. You get the idea.

Sometimes at the end of the month 'ready-cash' would run low and this poor slob would have to find a few dollars - and he never really knew how much was laying around the apartment. Oh, did I forget to mention that sometimes he stashed a few bills in his books? LOL Anyway, he always managed to make it through until the next payday - but sometimes it was a struggle. Not because he didn't have the money, but because he had no idea where the money was. What good was it for him to count the change in one of his penny jars (or all of them) if he had folding bills hidden in the books?

What a mess! Talk about a lack of discernment! OK, end of story. Everyone lived happily ever after, in a somewhat confused fashion! LOL

This, in my own opinion, is why having a moderator for resources being worked on cannot work. It is just creating another database (jar of lose change). I have 3 databases I check NOW before starting a module, and you want me to check a 4th? I stop in the middle of huge projects NOW due to frustration and boredom but you want to add another speed-bump, another distraction?

Yes. Yes, honestly I think something will need to be done soon. But when? I'm not qualified to say. (Thank you Mr. Obama for that phrase, and you're right - you are not qualified.)

Somehow, in some way, all module work needs to be kept track of. With over 5200 current modules on this site, and only our Lord knows how many on other sites, this project has grown. AND, it's going to continue to grow. Think of all the modules already created in Asia and Europe, that we don't have access to. What's going to happen when they're added in. Sooner or later some sweet soul is going to knock on our front door with a big gift of modules in a non-English format. I'm just saying....

Here, however, is what I believe needs to be done - but will it be done is the question.
1] Keep track of all databases that have e-Sword modules (BibleSupport.com, Dr. Dave, David Cox, etc.)
2] Keep track of all possible resources to make into modules.
3] Keep track of all resources being converted into modules.
4] Standardize the Author's name on the title of the modules, getting rid of duplicates and placing modules into collections.
5] Merge all these database's into one easily viewable, easily understandable, without a lot of qualifiers, easily updated chart or graphic. I do not think a simple list will work because of it's limitations, especially if all possible non-converted resources were added. I have a few hundred missions testimonies alone, plus histories, sermon collections, etc. - well over a thousand. AND there is a lot I haven't gathered in (yet) but know about, and I'm finding new material all the time. A simple list does not solve the problem.
6] This chart/graphic/data should be available to anyone interested in knowing - that's it entire purpose, to guide those who inquire.
7] Lastly, here's that can of worms again.... Some modules should not be posted on this site, if it's a Christian site. Over the past 2+ years I've had this conversation about discernment with Gary Everest, David Thomason, Bob Vigue and on that locked forum thread here at BibleSupport - my tune hasn't changed. If we want God's blessings and protection on this site, then we need to follow Godly principles (we do not want God as an adversary). Nehemiah chased the half-breeds off with a stick. Sounds good to me. Example: BibleSupport.com is hosting 4 modules of Emanuel Swedenborg's works. The man clearly proclaimed he got his doctrines from demons, but BibleSupport.com is hosting his works? (see: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Swedenborg) That's just one example.


*sigh* I get goofy when I've been up so long. Please forgive me for everyone I've offended, that wasn't my intention. I want to build up the Body of Christ, the Bride of the Lamb - not tear her down. But I really want to speak the truth also - what good is love without truth, or truth without love?

Blessings, lg

PS. God helped out that poor slob who lacked so much common sense concerning his money. He took it away! Rumor has it the man is still a slob, but he just doesn't have to worry about money any longer! LOL

#12 DoctorDaveT

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 06:40 AM

Hey, BibSuppers,

"A Note of Clarification" - I've been running eSword module sites for two years; I apply a doctrinal filter to all of my modules. While I may not agree with every fine point of every module, nor the major thrust of a few of the files (Darwin's Origin of the Species as an example), I believe that the library you'll find at www.DoctorDaveT.com is the kind of library you'd find in a conservative Baptist preacher's office (because that's what I am!).

By the way - even with the Darwin book mentioned above, it's easy to understand why I have it available when you see where it is on the site: Apologetics (learning about evolution so one may better defend his faith). Categorization helps greatly to understand why a particular book is included.

Now don't get me wrong; this isn't a criticism of BibSup. Not at all. In fact, I link to this site right on my front page. I like what Josh is doing (and I have found Josh to be nothing but pleasant, godly, and easy to work with). Josh and I are even theologically quite similar. We just have two different ministry objectives.

According to Josh's blogs, there are lots of new folks finding this website from eSword's home page. That's exciting. I hope they will find their way over to my site eventually, too. And according to my Google Analytics, that is starting to happen.

Dave

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#13 DoctorDaveT

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 07:00 AM

Yeah, when I made a module that Dr. Dave was working on, and he contacted me about it, I suggested some type of tracker then. I keep an eye on Dr. Dave's page.


Our Work List is very informal; but we try to keep it up to date. For those interested in what we're planning on building, you can visit it at http://www.doctordav.../tothework.html. I show you what OMLB is planning on building at some point in the future, what has been built and is in the proof queue, and the status of the proofing project.

Twice in the last 12 months, someone has built a module that I spent a lot of hours on; and a couple of other times, someone built a module (hmm, would that be Josh?) that I spent a few hours on. It would have been nice for everyone involved to know what other people were working on. (I sure would have been thrilled to not have built that Crockett harmony module that Rick developed after I published mine!) Based on what I'm seeing here at BibSup, I'm guessing that there aren't more than a dozen major module builders. So, it seems like all that is necessary is a simple master list that someone (even a non-module-builder!) could manage. In my opinion, here's all the categories that are necessary:
  • Module Name ("Doe, John - Sample.topx" or "Jane Doe's 'OT Sample.cmtx'")
  • Module builder name and email address (DoctorDaveT - contact me via my website)
  • Approximate release date & website (September, 2011 - www.DoctorDaveT.com)
Of course lots more information could be added to that list (to please some of the librarians/historians in our midst), but in my experience, simple is good; simpler is better; and simplest is best.

For those who have 1,000+ projects (LarryG!) in their module building queue, all that would be necessary is to list the next half dozen or so that they are currently wanting to build. The key here is not to duplicate our work. If someone else tackles one of our "future projects," I think all of us would be happy with that.

One last note: the bigger the project is, the more important it is for others to know what we're doing. (I spent a couple of months working on a .cmtx file, only to have another person publish a substantially identical module one week earlier than mine. Ugh.)

Dave

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#14 James Rice

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 08:54 AM

I absolutely agree with Dr. Dave! The right hand needs to know what the left hand is doing. Let's get organized so that others who visit this fine site will know what's on the horizon and what modules they can expect to see developing and current modules which are being developed.

#15 pfpeller

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 09:34 AM

I like Dr Daves idea. I too spent many hours working on a certain cmtx that he was also working on.

#16 LarryG

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:54 AM

Well, I guess we are not in agreement then. I was wrong in agreeing with both Cato and Jonathon - speaking without thinking it through.

At first I thought this was a good idea, but came to realize that what you are proposing is only a temporary band-aid on what is very probably going to become a real problem. Right now it's just a minor annoyance, a pebble in our shoe.

If this site becomes really big (40,000+ registered members, with 300 on at a time 24/7) then this issue has not been solved, only pushed into the future. Then it will need to be re-addressed when there is less time and more pressure. Sweet. Another band-aid that has to be replaced.

As for duplication of efforts right now. It's happened to me also. Life happens - I'm a participant, not a spectator. That means the rain falls on the just and the un-just alike - we'll do OK regardless.


It's best to work heartily as unto the Lord.

#17 James Rice

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:10 AM

LarryG, I guess you're addressing a totally different topic (I agree there should be a doctrinal filter). but what I and others are speaking with reference to is that some of us are not working on the same modules. It would be nice to know who's working on what module so that I am not wasting my time working on the very same module.

As to the doctrinal filter it should be the cardinal truths of the Word of God. No module should be posted which teachings clearly violate the cardinal doctrines of God's Word such as the existence of God, virgin birth of Jesus Christ, etc....now as the various doctrinal beliefs among us I think we should stick to producing high quality modules that unite us rather than divide us. Just my thoughts.

#18 patchworkid

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 02:09 PM

LarryG, I guess you're addressing a totally different topic (I agree there should be a doctrinal filter). but what I and others are speaking with reference to is that some of us are not working on the same modules. It would be nice to know who's working on what module so that I am not wasting my time working on the very same module.

As to the doctrinal filter it should be the cardinal truths of the Word of God. No module should be posted which teachings clearly violate the cardinal doctrines of God's Word such as the existence of God, virgin birth of Jesus Christ, etc....now as the various doctrinal beliefs among us I think we should stick to producing high quality modules that unite us rather than divide us. Just my thoughts.


HI I am more about "that some of us are not working on the same modules. It would be nice to know who's working on what module so that I am not wasting my time working on the very same module." ->This is my concern .

About doctrinal beliefs as long as the Word of God. Just beware of Doctrine of Demons (that is against the Word of God).

If we do make modules that is against the Word - should be addressed. Some modules should tell us about the false teachings of the Word of God.

thanks
Patchworkid
Merismos the Scriptures with Patchworkid's Study Bible Set<p>http://www.biblesupp...tudy-bible-set/, MySword -http://www.biblesupp...tudy-bible-set/

#19 LarryG

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 02:29 PM

LarryG, I guess you're addressing a totally different topic (I agree there should be a doctrinal filter). but what I and others are speaking with reference to is that some of us are not working on the same modules. It would be nice to know who's working on what module so that I am not wasting my time working on the very same module.


No Cato, I was not changing the topic. I do not think this is a good idea.

#20 Josh Bond

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 03:51 PM

If this site becomes really big (40,000+ registered members, with 300 on at a time 24/7) then this issue has not been solved, only pushed into the future. Then it will need to be re-addressed when there is less time and more pressure. Sweet. Another band-aid that has to be replaced.


If we create a forum where you can post what your working on IF you want to, would that solve this issue? Or no? If you wanted to post as a courtesy, you could. And if you'd rather not post what your working on, then you would not. After all, we're all volunteers, no one is in charge of anyone, and no one answers to me for anything.

Would this work with 40,000 members (i.e. is this solution scalable)? If this isn't the right fix for when membership grows, what would be the right fix?

One area I can see this going wrong is if people start posting a wishlist of what they want to get done. If your posting more than 1 long term and 1 or 2 short term projects, I don't see how you could possibly be working on that all that simultaneously. In that case, you run the risk of having someone just ignore you, especially as your material lags on the list and someone else is thinking: "I could have had this done by now."

That's my thoughts. If I'm out left field, you guys tell me. We don't have to do anything at all.

Josh




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