28 replies to this topic

[LarryG]

Josh, I have a question.

Many Bible software programs offer tools so that the user can create their own modules. My question is, is it lawful to copy these 'user created' modules into e-Sword modules.

Specifically, the Logos platform offer's it users the PBB creator add-on. There are hundreds of PBB modules available across the Internet. Most of these PBB modules contain text's that are in the Public Domain.

Is it lawful to convert these PBB user created modules into e-Sword modules. Also, just for a little clarification, I am NOT speaking about any book modules that Logos has created for sale on their website or in any other presentation (DVD, CD, Streaming download, etc.). I am speaking about works in the Public Domain but have been created by users into PBB modules. They are not posted on the Logos site, but posted/hosted on private web sites, similar to BibleSupport.com

Thanks Josh.

[Josh Bond]

Josh, I have a question.

Many Bible software programs offer tools so that the user can create their own modules. My question is, is it lawful to copy these 'user created' modules into e-Sword modules.

Specifically, the Logos platform offer's it users the PBB creator add-on. There are hundreds of PBB modules available across the Internet. Most of these PBB modules contain text's that are in the Public Domain.

Is it lawful to convert these PBB user created modules into e-Sword modules. Also, just for a little clarification, I am NOT speaking about any book modules that Logos has created for sale on their website or in any other presentation (DVD, CD, Streaming download, etc.). I am speaking about works in the Public Domain but have been created by users into PBB modules. They are not posted on the Logos site, but posted/hosted on private web sites, similar to BibleSupport.com

Thanks Josh.

Someone else asked me the same question recently. Copyright protection does not apply to public domain text. Claims of database rights to public domain text are largely unenforceable, unless we're talking a compilation or a collection. And even then, the protection is weak when dealing with public domain information. Now this doesn't stop anyone from claiming a copyright on public domain information--you find no shortage of people who try to claim a copyright or a database right to public domain work. But the Federal Courts have repeatedly rejected this idea.

But if you agree to a EULA, or End User License Agreement, (or a checkbox with an agreement) that says you cannot copy the text, and then you use that application to view the text and copy it, then you have breached your contract or agreement. Doing so would not be a copyright violation for anyone, but it would be a breach of contract for you. Logos' EULA clearly says (on their website) that you cannot copy their text. So if you use their application to view and copy text from a PBB, then you would be in violation of your contract with Logos. I'm unaware of any separate PBB license--if there is one, it might specifically say one way or the other. This was directly addressed in a Federal appellate decision. The Court again rejected the company's copyright claims to a digital conversion of a physical public domain work, but did find the defendant had breached their contract with the company by violating the EULA required to open/run the software.

While at a friend's house some time back, I asked him about his Logos 3. It was the first time I'd seen Logos and part of my exploration was looking at a few PBB modules he had for Logos 3. The text from the PBB modules we looked at seemed to have been pulled from other Bible software modules or from the Internet. I didn't spend much time with this (it was before BIbleSupport.com started), just a quick glance showed me the text I saw could be found elsewhere.

[LarryG]

Thanks for your response Josh, I understand. I have the Logos 3g software and have never found it useful, except for their PBB module capabilities. The educated 'professional' Christians would strongly disagree, but I've never claimed to be either educated or a 'professional' Christian.

Just the other day I was digging through the Wesley Center Online (administered by Northwest Nazarene University) and noticed there were hundreds of PBB modules available for download ( http://wesley.nnu.ed...books/libronix/ ). I know there must be other module libraries available via seminaries and private pastors ( http://www.stilltrut...re/keeping-pbbs and http://www.ctsfw.edu/library/) I had hoped to use these works along with others I might come across.

The truth is I have no idea why I'm seeking more resources to convert to e-Sword format - I already have over 1,000 resources in backlog that need converting.

[Josh Bond]

By the way, I wished I had known you were working on F.B. Meyer's Homiles. I have cleanly formatted text from all 5 volumes I could have given you. I was going to convert them to both a topical format and a devotional format. It was the very next item I was going to work on, so I'm glad you uploaded your first couple of volumes! Now I know to move on to the next item on the list.

[jonathon]

The truth is I have no idea why I'm seeking more resources to convert to e-Sword format - I already have over 1,000 resources in backlog that need converting.

You are pointing to more content that other people can easilly convert into e-Sword format.

jonathon

[James Rice]

Perhaps it should behoove us to organize our efforts so that we all know what we're working on. This way two people are not working on the same module. Just a thot!

[LarryG]

Perhaps it should behoove us to organize our efforts so that we all know what we're working on. This way two people are not working on the same module. Just a thot!

I think that's an excellent idea! However.... I can only speak for myself, but I'm not always the most stable of resource builders. My area's of interest tend to jinx a lot, never running in a straight line. I've amassed over 75 resources that are 'partially' proof-read, while others are in a clean text only - and of course there's the vast majority that are just copy/paste from Google Books or the Internet Archive.

I'm always looking for new resources. I had the PDFs & OCRs of Meyer's 5 volume Daily Homily, but then found them already posted online (with lots of spelling errors). I've dropped everything and did those two DEVX modules along with Rev. James Smith's 'Rememberancer' DEVX.

Myself, I hope to do two of William Jay's devotionals next....right after Thomas Manton's 'Pslam 119' and some sermons by Wesley.

[LarryG]

By the way, I wished I had known you were working on F.B. Meyer's Homiles. I have cleanly formatted text from all 5 volumes I could have given you. I was going to convert them to both a topical format and a devotional format. It was the very next item I was going to work on, so I'm glad you uploaded your first couple of volumes! Now I know to move on to the next item on the list.

I'm sorry Josh, I didn't know. Myself, I had planned on making 3 different Meyer's DEVX module's, but doubt I will do any more on this work. Vol 3 & 4 are still untouched - that's 451 devotions right there, more than enough for another DEVX module.

[Josh Bond]

I'm sorry Josh, I didn't know.

You have nothing to apologize for! I'm glad you made the modules...

Perhaps it should behoove us to organize our efforts so that we all know what we're working on. This way two people are not working on the same module. Just a thot!

Yeah, when I made a module that Dr. Dave was working on, and he contacted me about it, I suggested some type of tracker then. I keep an eye on Dr. Dave's page.

I tend to be very disorganized, though. I sometimes decide spur of the moment to make something when I find a good text for it. I procrastinate on larger projects in favor of smaller projects and then one day, I'll just jump on the larger project and try to put a dent in it. I'm getting ready to go out of town, so I won't be working on much at all. Thinking about working on some of Henry Thorne Sell's materials when I return, if his doctrine is agreeable with me (from what I've skimmed, it seems good).

[jonathon]

I think that's an excellent idea!

+1

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not always the most stable of resource builders.

The virtue of the list is that you can see who wants to work on a specific work. If you, or anybody else wants to create the resource, they can contact the person who listed it, for a status update. If no/minimal work has been done, then the person who requested the status update can work on it.

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My suggestion would be a new forum, with postings being exclusively resources that are being worked on. Keep wish list items here.

jonathon