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Any Plans for Editing K&D?

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#1 Gumaha

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 09:51 AM

Are there any plans for editing public domain resources for e-Sword, esp. the K&D commentary?

 

I've been using e-Sword for a long time, going back to version 4 I think. There are numerous errors in K&D, many of which can be overlooked. The biggest drawback over the years for me has been the versification difference. Years ago I communicated with Rick Meyers about this issue, but never got a reply. Like me, he manages to stay busy.

 

The e-Sword application is obviously aware of this issue, since versification differences between Hebrew texts like HOT, HOT+ and other translations (Bible versions) display versification differences when they exist by listing both the verse number in the Hebrew text and the one in the other version, say GNB. However, links in the K&D commentary point to verses originating in the Hebrew text; activating a Scripture tooltip set a western translation (say, any English translation) will point to the wrong verse when there is a versification difference between the two.

 

Would it be a major undertaking to construct a filter between commentaries and tooltip link references that would compensate for these versification differences?


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#2 APsit190

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 04:04 PM



Are there any plans for editing public domain resources for e-Sword, esp. the K&D commentary?

 

I've been using e-Sword for a long time, going back to version 4 I think. There are numerous errors in K&D, many of which can be overlooked. The biggest drawback over the years for me has been the versification difference. Years ago I communicated with Rick Meyers about this issue, but never got a reply. Like me, he manages to stay busy.

 

The e-Sword application is obviously aware of this issue, since versification differences between Hebrew texts like HOT, HOT+ and other translations (Bible versions) display versification differences when they exist by listing both the verse number in the Hebrew text and the one in the other version, say GNB. However, links in the K&D commentary point to verses originating in the Hebrew text; activating a Scripture tooltip set a western translation (say, any English translation) will point to the wrong verse when there is a versification difference between the two.

 

Would it be a major undertaking to construct a filter between commentaries and tooltip link references that would compensate for these versification differences?

The short answer to your question is, No!

 

OK, now for the more long winded answer.

 

The K&D commentary is an official e-Sword resource, and as such is secured and cannot be edited by anyone else other than those in who work directly with or for Rick Meyers. Now, here is the worse part of the deal; also because the K&D commentary is an official e-Sword resource, there isn't an open editable of it on this site.

 

OK, having said all of that, there is a work around that problem, and one which may take a bit of work on your part.

 

All you need to do is simply copy the text from e-Sword, and past it into ToolTip Tool NT, and correct all the errors you find, and from there create your own edition of the K&D commentary. As for how well that will work, I don't know due to this is somewhat out of my league.

 

Blessings,

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#3 Gumaha

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 06:20 AM

Hmmm. Thanks for your suggestion.

 

I think I understand your suggestion, but I'm not sure it is possible to correct the hundreds (or thousands) of errors there are in the text "manually". It's not like the verse reference links in K&D are incorrect. If a user selects Options | Scripture tooltips ... | Old Testament | HOT, or another Hebrew language version of the OT, then the links in K&D will point to the correct verses in Scripture tooltips. The problem is the versification difference I mentioned. I think e-Sword needs a means of recognizing the versification type of each Bible resource and Commentary resource, so that when a user selects Options | Scripture tooltips ... | Old Testament | KJV, then e-Sword itself will automatically make the adjustment in versification needed so that the commentary verse references point to the correct verses via the Scripture tooltip in whichever resource a user wants to use.

 

If what you say is correct about K&D being "locked up" (and I have no reason to doubt that what you say is true) that's too bad. There are many other typos and incorrect formatting error that could possibly corrected manually.

 

I think what I'm suggesting is something that needs to happen at the next major upgrade in the entire e-Sword application and resource hand-shake. For that reason, this may need posting on another forum.

 

Thanks again.


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#4 Roy

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 07:46 AM

Just for my own curiosity, would you please explain exactly what you mean by versification?

Can you please supply an example or two showing the incorrect version (current) and what would be the correct way?

 

I thought I understood what you meant, but now I am unsure.

 

Thanks!

Roy



#5 Gumaha

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 01:23 AM

Sorry, Roy, I did think the term was in common use.

 

Differences in versification between most English translations and the Hebrew text occur throughout the Old Testament, but the book with the most differences is probably Psalms -- not just because it's the longest book, but because the Hebrew text counts the introductions to each psalm as verse 1, whereas in my KJV, NASB, etc. verse 1 begins with what is verse 2 in Hebrew. Psalm 3 has 8 verses in the KJV; in Hebrew it has 9 verses. Bible software (like e-Sword) must have some way of collocating the content of verses so that when a users looks up something in a commentary it points to the verse with the intended reference.

 

This isn't a problem for most commentaries written by English speakers. They simply use the versification scheme of most English translations throughout, and everything works OK. K&D, on the other hand, is a reference work based solely upon the Hebrew text of the OT, and it uses Hebrew versification throughout.

 

For instance, the K&D commentary for Psalm 3:3 in Hebrew (which in the KJV is "But thou, O LORD, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head") points instead to what is Psalm 3:2 in English -- the wrong verse if the tooltip is turned on for the links in K&D.

 

You might not be a reader of Hebrew, but, just for the fun of it, you might understand the problem better if you were to download and install the HOT and/or HOT+ Bible Resources (Hebrew Old Testament without and with Strong's). [For some reason, my computer and this website's messaging are incompatible, so I cannot copy and paste anything from my machine into these communications.] If you then go to the book of Psalms (or any other place where there is a versification difference) and select either HOT or HOT+, you'll see two verse numbers at the right of each Hebrew verse (except the first). The verse number farthest to the right is the correct verse number in Hebrew; the verse number immediately to its left is the correct verse number in English (and most other languages). Russian has this same versification difference with English versions of the Bible, so it can be seen in the RST Bible resource for e-Sword. The Latin Vulgate also has it. (e-Sword Bible resource 'Vulgate')

 

Hope this helps a little.


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#6 anh Mike

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 01:40 PM

the older version is not locked.  And can be modified legally as long as you do not remove it from the data base.  It should be the old MS access file that hung out in space orbiting the internet.  Probably still in orbit somewhere.  You may also play around the Word Module version which is user module and not official.

 

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#7 APsit190

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 03:40 PM



the older version is not locked.  And can be modified legally as long as you do not remove it from the data base.  It should be the old MS access file that hung out in space orbiting the internet.  Probably still in orbit somewhere.  You may also play around the Word Module version which is user module and not official.

 

Michael

OK, If the K&D commentary and other resources that were created using MS Access Database are unlocked (not password secured), then you should not have any problems converting them using any of the conversion tool available for download from this site.

 

However (and this is a huge however), from memory all official e-Sword resources created on MS Access are secured, which includes the K&D Commentary; which means these cannot be converted. As to whether or not these resources can be opened and edited using T4 or using MS Access or OpenOffice (or similar) Base , I don't know, but I am skeptical. In order for my skepticism to be removed, it will have to be tested.

 

Blessings,

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#8 Josh Bond

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 05:59 PM

I have the K&D text in a large RTF document that can be edited with ToolTip and a module generated from that. But I think what you're asking for is changes to the way e-Sword handles versification, which can't be accomplished through editing the module.

 

 

Hmmm. Thanks for your suggestion.

 

I think I understand your suggestion, but I'm not sure it is possible to correct the hundreds (or thousands) of errors there are in the text "manually". It's not like the verse reference links in K&D are incorrect. If a user selects Options | Scripture tooltips ... | Old Testament | HOT, or another Hebrew language version of the OT, then the links in K&D will point to the correct verses in Scripture tooltips. The problem is the versification difference I mentioned. I think e-Sword needs a means of recognizing the versification type of each Bible resource and Commentary resource, so that when a user selects Options | Scripture tooltips ... | Old Testament | KJV, then e-Sword itself will automatically make the adjustment in versification needed so that the commentary verse references point to the correct verses via the Scripture tooltip in whichever resource a user wants to use.

 

If what you say is correct about K&D being "locked up" (and I have no reason to doubt that what you say is true) that's too bad. There are many other typos and incorrect formatting error that could possibly corrected manually.

 

I think what I'm suggesting is something that needs to happen at the next major upgrade in the entire e-Sword application and resource hand-shake. For that reason, this may need posting on another forum.

 

Thanks again.



#9 APsit190

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 03:26 PM



I have the K&D text in a large RTF document that can be edited with ToolTip and a module generated from that. But I think what you're asking for is changes to the way e-Sword handles versification, which can't be accomplished through editing the module.

Hi Josh,

You are correct when you said, "...what you're asking for is changes to the way e-Sword handles versification, which can't be accomplished through editing the module."

 

The way e-Sword handles the Tanakh's versification looks something like this, e.g., Psa 32:3 (Psa 32:4) The green being e-Sword's Versification, and the blue being the versification which would be seen in a hard copy of the Tanakh.The Scripture Tooltip only reads e-Sword's default. However, both versifications will appear in the tooltip. See screenshot in attachment below.

 

I trust this is helpful to everyone.

 

Blessings,

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Attached Files


Edited by APsit190, 03 July 2016 - 03:37 PM.






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