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Tooltip and extra verses in a Bible module


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#1 Tim Mitchell

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:35 PM

In Tooltip, the number of verses / lines is fixed as far as I understand.  I am wondering if this is just a restriction of tooltip or if it is a restriction of e-sword.

 

Some Old Testament manuscripts such as the LXX and the Peshitta OT have extra verses in some places with slightly different verse numbering.  I am wondering if this causes a problem with the module and what the workaround is for this problem.

 

I will be generating our OT Peshitta module shortly and this is something that I will need to work out shortly.  I have had problems with using Tooltip in the past for interlinear modules, and will probably be generating the module using various alternative tools and SQL utilities. I am just wanting to make sure that if I add an extra verse entry in the SQL module file that I will see that verse appear in e-sword.

 

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated,

 

Blessings,

Tim.

 

PS. Does anyone know if Ray Barone is still with us?  He isn't replying to messages and hasn't been on the forum since the middle of the year.



#2 JPG

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 02:44 AM

Take a look for example at the LXX+ at Exodus chapter 38. You can see where and how it has been aligned. To find all of them (if it could be any help to you) simply do a regular expression search for "\[" (excluding quotes).

 

The person known as "Raymond Barone" has left this forum.

 

Jon



#3 Tim Mitch

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 04:05 AM

Hi Jon, I checked in the LXX at Exodus 38, but it has fewer verses than the Hebrew and not more.  I am talking about where there are more verses than in the Hebrew. Fewer verses are no issue at all.  What exactly does the expression \[ do in the module syntax?

 

Do you know any way of getting in touch with "Raymond", as he did the NT module for me and said he would do the OT one when we got it translated.  PM me if you have any way of contacting him.

 

Regards,
Tim Mitchell.



#4 Tim Mitch

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 05:58 AM

So from initial testing it seems that if I add an extra entry in the module SQLite file with an extra verse number it shows up in the PC version of e-Sword.  I am not sure yet if it works with HD and LT yet, but the PC version accepts it fine.



#5 BH.

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 07:58 AM

True - TooltipToolNT does look for strict conformity to scripture references that match the KJV verse list.  That does not mean it cannot be changed!  It is SMOPAT - "simple matter of programming and time". 



#6 APsit190

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 01:58 PM



True - TooltipToolNT does look for strict conformity to scripture references that match the KJV verse list.  That does not mean it cannot be changed!  It is SMOPAT - "simple matter of programming and time". 

Moreover, the total number of verses between various English translations differ, and they differ quite vastly. I've picked on three of the most popular versions in current use, and they are:

  1. NIV has a total number of 31,086 verses
  2. NKJV has a total of 31,102 verses (which is the same as the KJV and NLT)
  3. MSG (The Message) has a total number of 31,021 verses.

I mentioned the NLT because of its popularity among the Teenage Christian culture.

 

Then one just needs to think of the translations which include the Apocrypha, and there you will see a massive climb in the total number of verses.

 

Without the Apocrypha, and seeing the variation of the total number of verses is predominantly due to the way some translators have married or merged some verses together.

 

I trust this information is helpful in understanding why some translations differ, and in answering, "why isn't that verse in my Bible," kind of question.

 

Blessings,

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Edited by APsit190, 28 December 2015 - 01:58 PM.


#7 BH.

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 04:34 PM

The total verses is usually do not having EXTRA verses, but dropped verses, which is not a problem with TTTNT.  The problem being presented here is that there are verses which do not conform with the KJV, adding more verses in a chapter that what the KJV has for example, if I am indeed understanding the issue.  The constraints can be changed.



#8 APsit190

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 01:38 AM



The total verses is usually do not having EXTRA verses, but dropped verses, which is not a problem with TTTNT.  The problem being presented here is that there are verses which do not conform with the KJV, adding more verses in a chapter that what the KJV has for example, if I am indeed understanding the issue.  The constraints can be changed.

 

Hi Brent,

As a point of discussion, I haven't seen an English translation which has more verses in a given chapter of any book. As to whether there are any around I don't know, but my guess is it is quite possible considering there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule as to how many verses should be in a chapter. With that said, R.C., editions of the Bible, e.g., NAB, DRB., do have extra chapters in a book of the Bible, e.g., 151 psalms, as where the Tanakh and Protestant translations of the OT have 150.

 

Oh, yeah, I just remembered, the Nova Vulgata (NVLA) which is a nightmare of a Latin translation, due to having more errors in it than what I can poke a stick at, actually does have a hodge podge of some less and others more verses in various chapters in the Bible. However, I tend to think that this is due to bad workmanship with initial  creation of the one for e-Sword, that I'm trying to fix, and not seeming to be getting anywhere with it.

 

Anyway, bro, I trust you had a great Christmas, and wish you one fantastic happy New Year.

 

Blessings,

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#9 Tim Mitch

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 04:06 AM

Thanks for the comments everyone.  The cases where there are verses missing from the translation is usually fixed by me adding the comment in the verse text "This verse is omitted in the Peshitta Old Testament" and observing the standard KJV numbering.  Tooltip does have the problem that with Daniel for example, it has 70 extra verses in chapter 3 in the Peshitta OT. These would be a problem with the current version of Tooltip as it stands. B.H. If flexibility in this area could be added to the next version of tooltip it would be helpful.  We won't be doing the plain English version of the OT Peshitta for a little while, but when we do I will be using tooltip for that purpose.  It works wonderfully for standard bible module generation. Brent, would there be a problem with extra verse number references in the commentary module as well, or just the bible module?

 

I won't be using tooltip for the RTL interlinear as we had some difficult problems with it in making the NT module over a year ago. Brent you may remember some of our discussions at the time, it became quicker and easier to generate it through other means, thanks to the help of Ray as he already had tools to do it. With this OT module I will have to manually generate the file using SQL myself .... Lots of fun! :)

 

Blessings,

Tim.


Edited by Tim Mitch, 29 December 2015 - 04:15 AM.


#10 BH.

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 12:50 PM

Here is something to try:

 

Attached is a "macro" for ToolTipToolNT (TTTNT) which defines the number of verses in each chapter.  If you have more chapters than are in the KJV, you'd need another "macro".  The Verses macro can be edited and then loaded into TTTNT.  First download the "macro" and save it into you "c:\users\USERNAME\Documents\e-Sword ToolTip NT"  folder.  If you want to change the 3rd chapter of Daniel, then you would edit using Notepad (or other text editor) the section on Daniel.  It looks something like this:

 

...23 35)) ('Daniel' (21 49 30 37 31 28 28 27 27 21 45 13,APOCRYPHA/64 42)) ('Hosea' (11 ....

 

There are 30 verses in the 3rd verse of Daniel.  To change the number of verses in Daniel, edit the 30 to the number you want.  Example:

 

23 35)) ('Daniel' (21 49 99 37 31 28 28 27 27 21 45 13,APOCRYPHA/64 42)) ('Hosea' (11 ...

 

This says that the 3rd chapter of Daniel has 99 verses.  After editing the "macro", save it.  Then in TTTNT, click the menus, Tool+Macro+Verses.  Then test tooltipping sample verse references. 

 

NOTE - incorrectly edit this "macro" and all the verse checking can get messed up.  Restarting TTTNT will reset the program back to default settings and you would need to load the macro each time you start TTTNT. 

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