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#11 Josh Bond

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 06:59 PM

I for one don't use the NIV as it is not really a translation. But my point is that, regardless of what you and others might say, it is supposed to be the Word of God, and therefore freely available for all. 

 

That's a good argument for giving away copyrighted Bible translations. But your website doesn't have a single copyrighted Bible translation. Instead, you're giving away copyrighted commentaries and books. They aren't God's Word. They're man's word about God's word. People worked very hard to write those resources. And society today protects the intellectual property of others, whether it's a Christian book or something secular.

 

I think you can make the argument that Christians should respect laws that do not conflict with the Bible. And I don't believe copyright law conflicts with the Bible, especially when we're not talking about Bible translations. (And we're not, because your website isn't distributing those...) 

 

I'm always glad to see you come back online again, since there's always public domain content we can use.. I just wish you would not distribute copyrighted works so you could stay online.



#12 journey

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:24 PM

Forget the popcorn - it's not worth the typing when the person you're conversing with has little or no concept of right and wrong. God certainly didn't tell you to break the law. Most Christians do try to obey the law, and you do know which laws I'm talking about. Do what you want to, and I hope that you pay the consequences some day. I have nothing further to say to you.


Philippians 4:6-7 (KJV)
6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

 


#13 LarryG

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:46 PM

removed by author


Edited by LarryG, 17 July 2013 - 10:24 PM.


#14 johanseb

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:09 PM

Did Jesus obey the -unjust- laws of the pagan Roman Empire? Yes.

What should we do, following his example?

How do we change unjust laws?

Praying...there is One higher than the emperor.



#15 Bradley S. Cobb

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:10 PM

I have some thoughts (believe it or not) on this matter.  :)

 

#1.  There are costs to producing things.  Printing Bibles costs money.  Translating the Bible costs money, because someone (many someones) are spending a lot of their time working on it.   The same thing is true with Bible commentaries--having written commentaries on a couple NT books, I can tell you that they are extremely time-consuming. 

 

#2.  Regarding commentaries, they are not God's word.  They are basically preaching on paper (or teaching on paper).  It takes more work to write a commentary than it does to write a sermon (I do both, so I know).  Yet, I'd be willing to guess that most of the people who cry out that these commentaries should all be free would at least hesitate to say the preacher shouldn't be paid for his preaching.  Didn't God inspire the phrase "the workman is worthy of his hire"?

 

#3.  I think the extent of the copyright laws in the US are ignorant, but that doesn't mean I can disregard them.  I also think the 25 mph speed limit in front of the church building here is ignorant, but that doesn't mean I can violate because I think it's ridiculous.  We obey the laws of the land because God says to.

 

#4.  There are VERY VERY VERY few Bible translations that you can't get a free, legal copy of somewhere.  All the big ones are free online (KJV, NKJV, ASV, NASB, NIV, NLT, ESV, etc...).  Most of the lesser-known ones are also free online--AND in e-Sword format (MLV, SENT, etc...).  Most Translations (especially the big ones) can be had for free in print if you contact Bible societies or call some of your local churches.

 

People complain frequently about "they're charging money for this Bible.  God's word should be free!"  That sounds good to those who don't bother to think. 

 

So what you're saying is that people should starve and not be able to pay any bills while translating the Bible, and that companies should actually be in business to lose money by publishing books and then not be able to recoup the costs.  And you're also saying that you're not happy enough with the fact that it is free to read online (BibleGateway.com has most of them), and that a print copy of almost all translations can be had for free if you ask the right people.  You demand that it has to also be free in e-Sword.  Demand that people put in the work and then demand that they don't get paid for it.  If your employer came to you offering that deal, would YOU take it?

 

-Brad


Edited by Bradley S. Cobb, 14 July 2013 - 07:10 PM.

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#16 Christo Janse Van Rensburg

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:45 AM

There are many arguments for and against the way copyright is used at the moment. The reality on the ground though is that many times copyright is used to try and control the copyrighted works, money and labour are many times just well put excuses. Making a copy of something is not theft as the person still has the original, even children understand this.

 

That being said, religious materials should remain free of such legal and morally problematic issues. Right or wrong. If it is copyrighted and you want to distribute it by backchannels that is one thing, but openly challenging laws with it is very risky unless you believe you have no other choice. As in communist countries for example... which is probably partially why piracy is so rampant there mind you.


Edited by Christo Janse Van Rensburg, 15 July 2013 - 04:48 AM.


#17 Ebed Doulos

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:47 AM

I offer my personal opinion which translates into personal practice:  I obey the law, secular as well as the divine, to the very best of my understanding.

 

I often hear people use Jesus' activities in regards to the money changers as an excuse for their own activity.  But I have yet to find in the scriptures where Jesus broke the law in driving them from the temple.  However, I do find references where by doing what he did, Jesus actually upheld the law.  (See Isaiah 56:7; Matthew 21:13; Psalms 69:9; John 2:17)

 

If it was against the law and since this event occurred just a few days before his crucifixion, one would think that the High Priest and the Sanhedrin would have used this easily proved charge.  There were many witnesses who were financially impacted.  They were still in the vicinity and I'm sure that the Jewish authorities could have found a few who would have eagerly testified.   But they did not.  Instead they called on false witnesses. (See Mark 14:55-56)

 

Therefore, I do not believe that Christ driving the money changers from the House of the Lord is a licence to break any law.  That, in my opinion, includes, among others, secular laws concerning copyright.

 

::spills his popcorn::


Edited by Ebed Doulos, 15 July 2013 - 08:57 AM.

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#18 Christo Janse Van Rensburg

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 10:09 AM

And what of the laws that demanded the Israelites bow down and worship certain public officials? In many communist countries it is illigal to have bibles... are you suggesting we obey those?


Edited by Christo Janse Van Rensburg, 15 July 2013 - 10:15 AM.


#19 Bradley S. Cobb

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 10:50 AM

Making a copy of something you already own for your own personal use is legal and ethical.  Making a copy and giving it to someone else is illegal and unethical.  Let's take it to its logical conclusion: find a brand new book, copy it 10,000 times and give them all away.  Guess what you've just done.  You've just made it impossible for that person to make a living from the work he's done.  You've stolen from him.  Whether it is one book or 10,000, the principle is still the same. 

 

children also understand the tooth fairy is real.  So using them as your proof is rather goofy.

 

And Ebed, remember the 5-second rule.  The popcorn is still good.  :)


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#20 patchworkid

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:39 PM

Hi brad,

I thought it was 10 sec :-)
Merismos the Scriptures with Patchworkid's Study Bible Set<p>http://www.biblesupp...tudy-bible-set/, MySword -http://www.biblesupp...tudy-bible-set/




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