20 replies to this topic

[APsit190]

Good job on a complicated answer to a simple question... obviously she does not want to mess with sql.

Go with ToolTip. Best for this kind of work.

Hi Ryan,
In many respect I agree with you. Tooltip Tool, is really great to put out a module at speed with good formatting added. But there are somethings that T4 cannot do which require finer editing work. Perhaps the best example is font sizes. T4 uses preset font sizes, pretty much along the lines of what the e-Sword editors use. But if one wants a font size somewhere between, e.g., 20 and 24 points (40 and 48 half points), and let's say you want the font size to be at 22 points (44 half points) e.g., {\fs44 A Heading or something}, you're not going to get it. And therein lies the issue. However, for these kind of finer details SQLite does come in handy where they can be put in by typing in the rtf code for it.

Other examples are finer Line Indentation specifications, finer Line Spacing specification which are not present T4, but may be required. With that said, it must be noted that it should not be expected for T4 to have them simply because its not designed to do the finer work. It would be unreasonable to have a bulldozer to do the work of a spade, and vise versa if one wants to have the resource out at a reasonably good time.

Another point about this is that T4 is not a Database editing tool, and so when it comes to languages that require right to left reading, e.g., Hebrew and Arabic, as far as I am aware (and I could be wrong about this) T4 does not implement this setting when converting it to an SQLite database file for e-Sword to read right to left. And if that is the case then these kind of settings has to be manually typed in as a boolean (1 for True set to Right to Left, 0 or nothing for False to set or leave at default). Moreover, T4 does not have the capability for required UTF settings for certain foreign languages which are required in the Database file, and therefore one needs to be able to implement these kind of settings within the Database Engine or Editor.

For all these finicky kind of things I use SQLite Manager.

Blessings,

Edited by APsit190, 23 October 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[APsit190]

Obviously someone doesn't either or both agree and/or like what I posted. That said, it would be great if you plonked something up if there is an error to what I said and corrected it. Its pointless marking something down if you are not going to give a reason for it. So, please be kind enough to offer an explanation.

For your information, I have T4 installed and use it, and I am well aware of its capabilities and its limitations. And as such, like any piece of software, irrespective how well it does things and of what it can to, it simply can't do everything. I can't even sing to you, and tell you all sorts of nice things you want to hear Not even e-Sword can do that.

Blessings,

[Josh Bond]

Hi there, T4 can output font sizes size 24 or 48 or whatever you like. I ask module makers not to use font sizes in cmtx, bblx, dctx, and devx because doing so overrides e-Sword's default font size set by the user. Rick Meyers brought that to my attention near the beginning of 2012. But--you still can if you want. T4 will output the font sizes for those modules, if you configure the settings that way (Modules > Font Size Set by e-Sword checked or not checked).

Topics modules are totally different--T4 always outputs font sizes in topx files because e-Sword requires it. The font size can be 24 or 48 or 84 or 42 or... you get the idea.

T4 also sets and renders line spacing and paragraph spacing properly and precisely--as precisely as Microsoft Word. I usually set line/paragraph spacing in MS-Word, although occasionally I will correct something in T4. It works great and is as precise as the number you enter.

On foreign languages: Click Tools > Greek Unicode Fixup and T4 will do its magic so that your Greek characters display properly in e-Sword. Click Tools > Hebrew Unicode Fixup and it does the same. This great addition has saved me a LOT of aggravation and database editing after creating modules (usually a Greek commentary, like the one I'm making right now...). Those are the two most frequently used languages and if you needed more, Brent implements those upon request. He just adds features as requested, not necessarily in a methodical order.

As for right to left display, like in a Bible (BBLX), no database editing required for right to left. Use this setting via Modules > Define Module Variables > BBLX:

#define description=DESC
#define abbreviation=ABBR
#define comments=CMTS
#define version=1
#define strong=0
#define right2left=0
#define ot=1
#define nt=1
#define font=DEFAULT
#define apocrypha=0

[BH.]

Hi Ryan,
In many respect I agree with you. Tooltip Tool, is really great to put out a module at speed with good formatting added. But there are somethings that T4 cannot do which require finer editing work. Perhaps the best example is font sizes. T4 uses preset font sizes, pretty much along the lines of what the e-Sword editors use. But if one wants a font size somewhere between, e.g., 20 and 24 points (40 and 48 half points), and let's say you want the font size to be at 22 points (44 half points) e.g., {\fs44 A Heading or something}, you're not going to get it. And therein lies the issue. However, for these kind of finer details SQLite does come in handy where they can be put in by typing in the rtf code for it.

Other examples are finer Line Indentation specifications, finer Line Spacing specification which are not present T4, but may be required. With that said, it must be noted that it should not be expected for T4 to have them simply because its not designed to do the finer work. It would be unreasonable to have a bulldozer to do the work of a spade, and vise versa if one wants to have the resource out at a reasonably good time.

Another point about this is that T4 is not a Database editing tool, and so when it comes to languages that require right to left reading, e.g., Hebrew and Arabic, as far as I am aware (and I could be wrong about this) T4 does not implement this setting when converting it to an SQLite database file for e-Sword to read right to left. And if that is the case then these kind of settings has to be manually typed in as a boolean (1 for True set to Right to Left, 0 or nothing for False to set or leave at default). Moreover, T4 does not have the capability for required UTF settings for certain foreign languages which are required in the Database file, and therefore one needs to be able to implement these kind of settings within the Database Engine or Editor.

For all these finicky kind of things I use SQLite Manager.

Blessings,

I did not mark down you post, but... why you think you can't used 22 point font in T4. If you want 22.5, you can set that also, and it will be \fs45 in the RTF. So, what makes you think it can't? NOTE - if you are building DCTX/BBLX/CMTX files, then e-Sword is expecting no font sizes being specified.
Next, "finer Line Indentation" --- You can set it to what ever you want. Select the text you want to format, right click, and select Format Paragraph. You can set the indents to what ever you want. You want 0.093", great! No problem. You can also setup a paragraph the way you want it, and used the Styles toolbar to apply it to any other paragraph. So again, what makes you think it can't set the indents precisely?

T4 is not a Database editing tool. Well, that depends on what you want. By design, T4 is written to CREATE SQLite database files. You can even create tiny database files, and then combine them into a single database. As for Right-to-Left and Hebrew, T4 supports what e-Sword supports in this respect. It should be noted, that T4 used the same Text display engine that e-Sword uses. It should be noted, that the Text display engine (TXText Control) does not fully support Right-to-Left languages, but that is another story. If your file is to be marked as all being right-to-left, then you sent set the file as such be entering the appropriate #define variable at the top of the file:
#define right2left=1

Now, if you want to edit one record in an existing database file of say, 33102 records, then no, T4 is probably not the tool you want to use. If you are building a document record by record, that's great, have at it. But you will not be building many large projects in a short period of time, for which T4 was designed to do.

I'm curious, ff you have a document with a thousand compound scripture references, how long will it take you by using SQLite Manager to mark them, format them correctly so that e-Sword will do popups? 1 minute? 1 hour? 1 Day? None of the above? Just curious :-)

Now - if there is an existing e-Sword module that is not encrypted, T4 can load the entire file, and you can edit a single record, then recreate the database file. So, it can edit a database, just not a single record at a time...

Edited by BH., 25 October 2012 - 07:48 PM.

[APsit190]

why you think you can't used 22 point font in T4

Because the Font Dialog doesn't give it. It would only recognize known integer values you've set down, wouldn't it?! In fact there a heaps of font sizes that the Font Dialog doesn't give, and I assume that those sizes aren't recognized in the program. About the only way I can think of it working is if you declared an Font size integer that has not set values to it. I only work on font sizes that is shown. I haven't got a clue as to what is unknown and can't be seen in the Font Dialog. If you have available font size only shown as 7,8,9,10,11,12, 14, 16, 18, 24, 28, 36, 42, and etc points, then isn't that just what is available??? Anything in between doesn't exist, or does it???

Be great to see how its actually done to get these unknowns in.

Blessings,

[BH.]

Because the Font Dialog doesn't give it. It would only recognize known integer values you've set down, wouldn't it?! In fact there a heaps of font sizes that the Font Dialog doesn't give, and I assume that those sizes aren't recognized in the program. About the only way I can think of it working is if you declared an Font size integer that has not set values to it. I only work on font sizes that is shown. I haven't got a clue as to what is unknown and can't be seen in the Font Dialog. If you have available font size only shown as 7,8,9,10,11,12, 14, 16, 18, 24, 28, 36, 42, and etc points, then isn't that just what is available??? Anything in between doesn't exist, or does it???

Be great to see how its actually done to get these unknowns in.

Blessings,

The Font dialog box allows you to TYPE in any value you want. The Font COMBO box just above the ruler also allows you to TYPE in any value you want, it is a Standard Windows Combo box. The default values only show some of the most common values. But you are not restricted to those values in any way. You want 22.5, you can use it, type it in! If you want to use 22.5 often, then set it up once per session, and store it in the Style toolbar. If you have used say, Microsoft Word, its font dialog also only shows some of the most common font sizes. It gets messy putting in hundreds of values to choose from. So only the most common values are shown, just as in most word processors...

[Josh Bond]

There's nothing wrong with the way T4 is written for font size selection.

These are just basic PC skills. Wordpad, which comes with Windows and Microsoft Word, both have similar font size selection boxes. Not every font size is listed. It's common knowledge that you can manually type your own value.

 ms-word-font.png   91.24K   1 downloads

 wordpad-font.png   47.59K   1 downloads

Because the Font Dialog doesn't give it. It would only recognize known integer values you've set down, wouldn't it?! In fact there a heaps of font sizes that the Font Dialog doesn't give, and I assume that those sizes aren't recognized in the program. About the only way I can think of it working is if you declared an Font size integer that has not set values to it. I only work on font sizes that is shown. I haven't got a clue as to what is unknown and can't be seen in the Font Dialog. If you have available font size only shown as 7,8,9,10,11,12, 14, 16, 18, 24, 28, 36, 42, and etc points, then isn't that just what is available??? Anything in between doesn't exist, or does it???

Be great to see how its actually done to get these unknowns in.

Blessings,

[Fireandsalt]

Hi,
I would use SQLite editor as well, but for her, she specifically stated she did not want to deal with anything complicated... thus my recommendation for ToolTip.

[Josh Bond]

Hi,
I would use SQLite editor as well, but for her, she specifically stated she did not want to deal with anything complicated... thus my recommendation for ToolTip.

Right, if "complicated" is on the table, I use Raymond's Regexer: http://www.biblesupp...sqlite-regexer/ to directly edit modules, usually a specific RTF tag or search/replace. That's beyond what an end user is willing to do, but it's great for module makers. Any type of real text editing gets done in ToolTip NT, though.

[APsit190]

Hi Brent,
Really appreciate your help and information.

The issue with font sizes in software is primarily dependent on the types of variables that have been declared for it. If the variables are declared only with set values, i.e., int intFontSize=72; and etc and no open Font Size integer are declared, i.e., int intFontSize; and there are set parameters given in the output statements, then the only font sizes one is able to use are those that have been set. I've come across software which have just these set parameters and nothing else. So it's difficult to determine whether or not a program has an open parameter on font sizes.

So, because of my experiences on these issues, I've just assumed the default always existed irrespective of the program, including T4 and (for you Josh) MS Word and etc. Only on the rare occasion have I come across a program where one could could actually type in the font size in the dropdown Combo box on the main interface. All others are set at "ReadOnly," and have been given. Also in many Text Editing type software ( and this includes word processors), the Font Dialog have ReadOnly settings in it. That said, I've only come across about 4 programs that have the font size combo boxes as editable, and in some no font choice and size available at all. Interesting eh!

So, again I want to thank you, Brent, for your information and help.

Just a side note here: Interestingly WordPerfect has a "Style Editor" where one can create, edit, and save paragraph and page styles in which one can put in any font, font size, margin setting, indentation type and etc at the click of a button. Really simple and straight forward. I've never seen anything like it that is so quick and easy to use in any other word processor. Moreover, the ability to edit within Reveal Codes is something that is nothing more than pure genius. DDT knows all about these kind of things (well I hope he does).

 WP Styles Editor.jpg   43.68K   6 downloads

Blessings,

Edited by APsit190, 26 October 2012 - 04:11 PM.