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eSword new features wish list


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#11 Josh Bond

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:22 PM

The ability to make collections and search them. This allows for different grouping of your books and narrows down returns on searches makeing them more useful. For example If I have 3500 books and run a search on something I get a lot of not very helpfull answers, but if I can limit my search to a select group of books the answers are more likely meanful. Examples of collections would be all my theology books or all my historical books or all my Chaffer books. I would not want to search my theology books for historical topics the hits would most likely not apply. This feature greatly changes your ability to study more in ashorter period of time and is great for doing college work.


I agree: e-Sword could really use some type of resource categorization. There's a number of ways to do it but no matter how its actually implemented, the concept would be the same: a new database that tracks categories and resources, similar (sort of )to the overlay database that tracks e-sword highlights.

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#12 jonathon

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:25 PM

Or perhaps an option to "hide" certain tabs (with the other option of "show all").

>Options >Resource >Select All.
Restart required.

Alternatively, use e-Sword Resourcer, or one of the other tools that loads collections of works. That doesn't solve the tab issue. Thus far, the only solution/work around is to rename the file names.

Also, an option to create commentaries or Bible versions from within e-Sword (no offense to ToolTip tool).


I see including tools to create resources with the program as being extremely limiting. useful only for the most mundane, trivial resource.

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#13 APsit190

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 03:31 PM

I agree: e-Sword could really use some type of resource categorization. There's a number of ways to do it but no matter how its actually implemented, the concept would be the same: a new database that tracks categories and resources, similar (sort of )to the overlay database that tracks e-sword highlights.


Josh,
To some extent I agree with you. However the problem is that you begin to take e-Sword away from the intended user, the new Christian and the less computer literate person. It might be fine for you (and me) to have these bells and whistles, but for the person who is not so Computer savy, and the new Christian just wants to use e-Sword to read the Bible, learn the basics about God, you take the program out of there reach, and you then increase the learning curve of the program, thus making it more complicated. You begin to develop a program where it becomes one for a few, and not for the many.

I think, that when it comes to e-Sword, it really should be left for the those who don't want things complicated to use.

As a matter of interest, I wonder how many actual e-Sword users (those that use the program as there actual main tool for Bible Study) that don't and/or don't know how to use all the features of e-Sword against those that do. My gut feeling is that there are just a very small number that wants all these extra features.

Here is a list of what I rarely and don't use in e-Sword:
  • REGEX in Search - Don't use
  • Verse List - Rarely use
  • Search Criteria in Search - Don't use
  • Verse Analysis - Don't use
  • Bible Reading Plan - Don't use
  • STEP Reader - Don't use
  • Journal Editor - Don't use
  • Markups and underline - Rarely use
  • Compare Verses - rarely use (and actually I should use more often)
  • Resource Reader - Don't use
  • Extended Search - Rarely use
  • Graphics Viewer - Rarely use
  • Daily Devotions - Rarely use
  • Prayer Requests - Don't use
  • Sermon Illustrations - Don't use
  • Memory Verse - only when I want to play word games. Great fun doing that. So I guess that makes a bit more than rarely use, but not regularly used
  • Sermon Audio - Rarely use.
Now, I wouldn't be surprised that many (if not most) are just like me who don't an/or rarely use everything that e-Sword has. And if it goes to the most that don't use them, what is the value of putting them in there if its just for the handful that will use them.

Where I do agree with you, is that all these things really are wonderful to have, and to have even more added features because we're Software developers and programmers, and can see the potential of these things. But we forget that probably the overwhelming majority don't use these things because of the amount of time it takes to learn these things, and so it takes away the time of just getting into the Word of God.

Blessings,
Stephen (Php 1:21).
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#14 jonathon

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:03 PM

However the problem is that you begin to take e-Sword away from the intended user, the new Christian and the less computer literate person.

Implemented correctly, e-Sword won't be taken away from the intended user. However, getting the design to that point is very hard work.

I think, that when it comes to e-Sword, it really should be left for the those who don't want things complicated to use.


Then the issue becomes what program to migrate to, when e-Sword is too basic.

As a matter of interest, I wonder how many actual e-Sword users (those that use the program as there actual main tool for Bible Study) that don't and/or don't know how to use all the features of e-Sword against those that do.


Back around 2005 I wrote an essay because I was stunned to learn just how few features of e-Sword the people on the various e-Sword lists knew how to use. I haven't released an updated version, yet.

Here is a list of what I rarely and don't use in e-Sword:


What does a list of your hard copy Bible Study tools and methods include?

You checked half a dozen things that I can't see any student of Christianity not using.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised that many (if not most) are just like me who don't an/or rarely use everything that e-Sword has.


I'd hazard a guess that Biblical Software is like Office Suite Software. Ninety percent of the users don't use more than 20% of the available features and functions.

what is the value of putting them in there if its just for the handful that will use them.

Look at the Marketing Plan for Logos. Start in Academia, migrate to church leaders when the seminary students graduate, and then into the laity, when the church leaders are comfortable with it.

Seriously, can you imagine a novice computer user who is just learning about Christianity using Logos? Yet if Logos' current marketing plan is successful, that will be the standard scenario in church outreach.
(And yes, I am implying that more than 80% of the general population is computer illiterate, and should be treated as novice computer users.)

jonathon

#15 Ebed Doulos

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:24 PM

I must agree with Jonathon on this one, Back in the "olden days" of e-Sword, it was enough for me to do a basic search of the King James and maybe a few other versions. But as time has progressed and my study of the scriptures has intensified, other features are used ... sometimes very regularly and sometimes quite irregularly. But when I need to use a new feature, most often I am pleased to find out that they are there ready and waiting. Further-more, I do not want to migrate to some other package and I do not care how wonderful some people think it is. I have invested considerable time in learning how to use e-Sword and over the past few years I've invested hard budgeted $$$ in purchasing premium modules. Yes, there are features that I wish e-Sword had but which it does not. For example, right now I wish e-Sword would diagram a Greek sentence. It doesn't. The software packages that do are out of my price-range. So I am fish-boning by hand using paper and pencil. I'm confident that eventually Rick will produce an upgrade that will cover my needs as well as wants.
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#16 vanschoonhoven

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 09:54 PM

I started out using E-Sword to teach pastors how use bible software, I have ended up with theWord, because it can be simple and yet you can do so much more with it than with E-Sword. At the same time I now show more every day people how to study with bible software. I have found it very easy for the average guy to learn a program that can go deeper than E-sword and it allows years of expansion. Once you teach the simple ways a good program can help you study, it ends up a lot of people do want more, my idea is to help them see new ways to use the software to get more out of the scriptures.

When I start teaching new people to study with bible software, I have found that the main problem is people just have never been taught how to study the bible, the issue is seldom actually using the software.

Of course as some people have mentioned some bible programs are complicated, such as Logos. But we are not talking about making e-sword like Logos. We are talking about little improvements that could really help the average guy do more with their time in the scriptures
.
I have spent over 3000 dollars on Logos, most people will not do that, I have also spent time and money learning how to use it, and it is great, but a good program based on public domain books will do most of what Logos can do and they are easy to learn and free to get started with. That is what most believers need to get them going.

It makes no difference to me if E-Sword allows collections and other simple things in future additions, I have theWord and Logos, but it would allow more people to do more in their bible study!

#17 APsit190

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:02 PM

Jonathon,
As I've said, I agree there are many thing that can be done to e-Sword, and I guess I'm one of those to a certain extent. And having all the bells and and whistles would be really great, and Christian geeks and nerds (like us) would dearly love to have all these things. But put a too steep learning curve on a program, people do lose interest, and that's just the problem.

Look at the "free" Bible study programs there are, and compare the user support they have against e-Sword, count the number of resource modules (both official and third party) they have against e-Sword and etc. These programs could be regarded as way better than e-Sword as to their power of what they can do, yet it appears they don't have the user and user support that e-Sword has. The Word seems to be about the only other one, but is a relative second to e-Sword in user support and third party resource modules. So, for all what e-Sword doesn't have, and what users don't use, its seems to me to be streaks ahead of the others. So what makes e-Sword like that to where people seem to use it despite what it lacks?

If e-Sword (from what I seem to see) is that bad, and seriously lacks in features against other Bible software, why use it? Why not ditch it? With all these other betterprograms, why keep e-Sword and not use them?

I use e-Sword not for its bells and whistles, as I really don't care about them, I use it because its that darn easy to use, and its clean and quick. And at a rough guess, I reckon that is what really attracts users to it.

AAMOI I like what has been done to e-Sword, and there are a lot of improvements that can still be made, but I tend to think they would be more cosmetic than anything else. I think the way the IGNT and IHOT layout can be vastly improved to make it easier to use.

Something like this:
Top line - Hebrew or Greek Text (Strong's Numbers can be optional).
Second line - Transliterated Text
Third Line - Literal Translated Text
Fourth Line - An English Translation i.e., NIV or something (this can be optional).

The way the IGNT and IHOT is currently laid out with just the Hebrew (Greek) text, and then a version doesn't really give an accurate picture of an Interlinear Bible.

I'd like to see more up to date Dictionaries for e-Sword, and the two predominant ones would have to be the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament unabridged edition (Big Kittel) so that it can be used alongside with Thayer's Greek Lexicon, and the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament so that it can be used alongside the Brown, Driver, and Briggs Hebrew Definitions. Both Thayer and BDB are keyed to the TDNT and the TWOT respectively and not having them available for e-Sword is like having a leg or an arm missing.

Blessings,
Stephen (Php 1:21
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#18 Fireandsalt

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:16 PM

One thing I would like to see incorporated is the ability within e-Sword to gather tabs together. For example, have one tab for Greek (or original languages), one tab for KJV-related (AKJV, NKJV, RKJV, KJV-PCE, etc...). But the tabe need to be customizable. There are some bibles that I still want access to, but I use them so infrequently that it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they weren't across the tabs.

Or perhaps an option to "hide" certain tabs (with the other option of "show all").

Also, an option to create commentaries or Bible versions from within e-Sword (no offense to ToolTip tool).

BCobb

You do have the option of going to option>resource... and deselecting anything you don't want to show up. Then go back and recheck it when you need to use it.

#19 danm

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 04:49 AM

Look at the "free" Bible study programs there are, and compare the user support they have against e-Sword, count the number of resource modules (both official and third party) they have against e-Sword and etc. These programs could be regarded as way better than e-Sword as to their power of what they can do, yet it appears they don't have the user and user support that e-Sword has. The Word seems to be about the only other one, but is a relative second to e-Sword in user support and third party resource modules. So, for all what e-Sword doesn't have, and what users don't use, its seems to me to be streaks ahead of the others. So what makes e-Sword like that to where people seem to use it despite what it lacks?

Hello Stephen,
Since you bring up The Word: I wonder why you feel that it has inferior support than eSword, i think quite the opposite is true:
  • it has a super-active user forum that is directly accessible from the main site and from within the software itself!. No need to search for 3rd party sites (no offense to the EXCELLENT biblesupport.com site, i think it's great and i appreciate all the help i have found here)
  • it provides official email support
  • the author of the software is present in the forums and answers even the most technical questions in a quick and precise manner.
What exactly is it that you feel is missing here? How does this compare to the official eSword support? Do you have a bad personal experience there? Have you personally performed an objective comparison on the support of the 2 products?

Concerning third party resource modules:
I think both The Word and eSword have the same number of official modules (more or less, didn't count, pls do it and come back if you have the time).
I agree, eSword has more user mods. But i know that both programs have converters that can be used to converts modules with a few clicks (ignoring the thousands already available). So I assume we are talking now about the ones beyond those readily available (which are thousands for both programs).
But allow me one more thought pls: You are advocating the usefulness for the 'average user': how the average use will be interested in the 'thousands' of extra resources that are available for eSword? We are talking about the 'average' user here, correct? And at the same time this 'average' user will have no interest in the 'bells and whistles' in functionality to organize these resources in collections in order to view and search them? Hmm...

If e-Sword (from what I seem to see) is that bad, and seriously lacks in features against other Bible software, why use it? Why not ditch it? With all these other betterprograms, why keep e-Sword and not use them?

eSword is not bad, it's quite good actually. But eSword does lack against The Word significantly. This is the truth, but this is not a reason to ditch it. We are Christians and should be able to speak the truth. We don't ditch a piece of software when a better one gets out for several reasons:
  • Because we are used to it
  • Because we have invested time to learn it
  • Because we have invested money in resources
  • Because we are humans and we have personal preferences (and we tend to support them in a subjective way :)).

There is place for several Bible applications out there, and this is good. We shouldn't get too dogmatic and we shouldn't misrepresent one over the either because of personal preference. We should speak the truth and try to be objective, as much as our fallen human nature will allow us.

I use e-Sword not for its bells and whistles, as I really don't care about them, I use it because its that darn easy to use, and its clean and quick. And at a rough guess, I reckon that is what really attracts users to it.

This is a great thing. You shouldn't change because you are happy with it. I use The Word because i find eSword too restrictive and i find The Word too darn easy to use and very clean and quick, and overall a much better program. I shouldn't change either. But when we are trying to talk about either, let us try to present things as they are and let us each try to help each of the two applications improve so they can BOTH serve their communities in a better way!

Blessings,
Dan

Edited by danm, 22 December 2011 - 04:51 AM.


#20 DSaw

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 07:31 AM

How did this wishlist get turned into a debate? <------Rhetorical question

What do you want as a feature in eSword

May God change our hearts to what the truth is

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Rom_9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

2Ti 2:24-25  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 
 

 

 





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