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When is a Lie - Not a Lie?

By cbb1962, 30 September 2013 · 3,372 views

Old Testament New Testament Denominations and Disciplines

Acts 6:13-14 Some men agreed to tell lies about Stephen, and they said, "This man keeps on saying terrible things about this holy temple and the Law of Moses. (14) We have heard him claim that Jesus from Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs that Moses gave us."

These are the lies that killed Stephen.

Did you catch that? It was a Lie that Jesus would change the customs of Moses!

What were those customs? The customs that Moses gave the Israelites (along with gentiles that decided to be grafted into Israel) was the law of YHVH that they would be "under" forever. The same Law that Israel disobeyed and was destroyed by YHVH because of it.

Did you catch that? Not following the Law is based on a lie!!! This is EXACTLY what John says:

1 John 2:4 The one who says "I have come to know God" and yet does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person.

The LORD doesn't change, yet “we are not under the Law” is preached every Sunday!

Either the writer of Acts is wrong or the doctrine is, both can’t be right.

So, when is a Lie not a Lie?

Evidently, when it’s Mainstream Church Doctrine that's preached every Sunday morning!
“This Mornings Sermon: How the lies that killed Stephen became mainstream Church Doctrine - Israel was destroyed for not following the Law, but not us!"

This reminds me of: "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

Psalms 19:7 The Law of the LORD is perfect; it gives us new life. His teachings last forever, and they give wisdom to ordinary people.

Nehemiah 9:13 "You came down on Mount Sinai and spoke with them from heaven. You provided them with just judgments, true laws, and good statutes and commandments.

Romans 1:24-25 Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies among themselves. (25) They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

1 John 2:4 The one who says "I have come to know God" and yet does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person.

Jeremiah 32:23 And they came in, and possessed it; but they obeyed not thy voice, neither walked in thy law; they have done nothing of all that thou commandedst them to do: therefore thou hast caused all this evil to come upon them:

The Israelites thought "they weren't under the Law" and YHVH caused them to be destroyed, yet, every Sunday, the Church teaches "We Are Not Under the Law."

How arrogant that the Church teaches they are better than Israel... Utter Prideful Arrogance!

Romans 11:21-22  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.  (22)  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

"You Keep Saying 'We Are Not Under the Law', I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means."

Jeremiah 16:19  O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.


God’s Word is True!
- John 17:17, Psalms 33:4, Psalms 119:142, Psalms 119:151, Psalms 119:160
God Never Changes! - Malachi 3:6, James 1:17, Hebrews 1:12
Because his word is True and He never changes:
God’s Word Cannot Contradict Itself! - 1 Corinthians 14:33, Titus 1:2

Almost everyone agrees with these statements. - BUT, very few actually apply them to what they've been taught...

Did you read my post in the previous  Blog about Rom 6:14-19?

Let me guess...7th Day Adventist?

Nope, I'm independent and only a minority of the 7th Day Adventists keeps also the other Holy Days; for the others only Pentecost(Feast of Weeks).

And cbb1962 is also not a 7th Day Adventist because of his view of  Grace and  justified by faith doctrines.

Don't think that there is only one group of Sabbath-keeping churches.

Don't think that there is only one group of Sabbath-keeping churches.

I don't.  I'm somewhat familiar with 7th Day Baptists, for example.  It's all this emphasis on the necessity of keeping the Old Testament law that bred my assumption.

I was actually a Missionary Baptist and Southern Baptist all my life.  My Father is a minister of 65 years.  


But it was the Study of Sabbath that absolutely changed my view of Scripture.


My then 18 year old Son asked the seemingly simple question of "Why do we worship on Sunday?"  I gave the "perfect Southern Baptist answer:"  Its the "Lords Day." and we are to worship on the Lord's day. Because we follow the Scripture because God's word is truth and we only follow the truth!!!" Then he asked: "Have you ever studied about it in the Bible?" I said: "No (long pause) but I will..."


I figured something as foundational to my Church life and upbringing as Sunday worship had to be all over Scripture...  This was about 6 years ago and I had just been introduced to e-Sword,  I thought because there must be dozens of statements throughout the New Testament talking about changing from Saturday Sabbath to Sunday - The Lords day... and with e-Sword it would only take 20 - 30 minutes to put this issue to bed.


Well do the study for yourselves.  There is ZERO scriptural mandate.  However the Catholic Church makes no bones about the fact that They were the ones that changed it.  As a matter of fact I have dozens of articles about this.  The Catholic Church leaders make fun of the protestants for worshiping on Sunday. here are couple of Quotes:

  “Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the (Roman Catholic) Church, has no good reasons for its Sunday theory, and ought logically to keep Saturday as the Sabbath.” John Gilmary Shea, American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.

  “The Catholic church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday...The Protestant World at its birth found the Christian Sabbath too strongly entrenched to run counter to its existence; it was therefore placed under the necessity of acquiescing in the arrangement, thus implying the (Catholic) Church’s right to change the day, for over three hundred years. The Christian Sabbath is therefore to this day, the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic Church as spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the Protestant World.” James Cardinal Gibbons in the Catholic Mirror, September 23, 1983.


Then I started looking at the actual instances in the New Testament that refer to "the first day of the week."  The word "day" isn't in the original manuscripts and the word "week" in these instances is ALWAYS translated Sabbath every where else.  So this could be translated "one of the Sabbaths." or "first of the Sabbaths"  I later found out that in the intervening time between Passover and Pentecost the common practice was to "count the Sabbaths"  Any Sabbath during this time could be referred to as "one of the Sabbaths." or "First of the Sabbaths" or "Second of the Sabbaths."


Luk_6:1  And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
There are only eight (8) references that refer to "first day of the week"  Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2, Mark 16:9, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, John 20:19 These six verses are referring to the same day; Resurrection Day.   Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2. these are two separate days and are both many years later.
These 8 verses are referencing only 3 separate days that are translated the “First day of the week”  ALL of them occur between Passover and Pentecost.


Jesus said he was "Lord of the Sabbath." Matthew 12:8, Mark 2:28 Luke 6:5.  So in Revelation 1:10 when John says: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,... "  that was a Sabbath - a Saturday Sabbath.  To make any other conclusion is antithetical to scripture.


This was pretty flimsy evidence to continue to ignore the 4th commandment any longer... 


The question of Sabbath vs. Sunday was my first exposure to exegesis vs eisegesis.  It caused me to question every doctrine I was ever taught, and to prove them through scripture - not what some commentator said scripture meant...  Sadly in the end Sunday wins because tradition trumped scripture. Just like in Jesus' day.



I don't get what your trying to say here. That we are to observe the jewish sabath? or does it go further and inpute we are to observe all of the law.  If thats what you are trying to say of the law then basicly you are saying we have no need of Jesus Christ for he came to fulfill it and is our redemption.  He has done what animal sacrifice could never do nor following the law for we are and never capable of ever truely following every part of the law with out breaking it.  To say you need to observe the law as well is like saying we really don't need Christ and thus salvation comes at the price of our own deeds denying the power of Christ to live a truely perfect life thru his Spirit and atonement by the blood of the Lamb.

I wonder if a permit is required for these folks to perform their burnt offerings.

I don't get what your trying to say here. That we are to observe the jewish sabath? 


What I am trying to say here is this: It was told that Jesus would change the customs of Moses.  People believe that Paul was saying "we are not under the Law of Moses."  both statements are equivalent and both lead to not following the Law.  The first was the lie that killed Stephen, the second is mainstream Church doctrine.  


Draw your own conclusions.  


BTW, it is the LORD's Sabbath not something created by the Jews.

I wonder if a permit is required for these folks to perform their burnt offerings.


Well Ezekiel didn't say anything about needing permits for the Sacrifices in the millennial kingdom. 


I don't think Paul and the early Church needed permits when James told Paul to go and pay for all the sacrifices for Paul and the four others, approximately 15 years after Christ's Resurrection. 


Because the Temple is necessary for sacrifice, and there isn't a temple today, no need for permits now either...  ;-)

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